Hi,
I realize that is my first post. So for short introduction, I bought my Proconnect C 9G (2010 version with derailleur) this summer from a major dealer near Paris. I've been very pleased with my bike so far. It really helps me to climb the hills on my commute from Paris to Jouy en Josas (near Versailles)
However, from the very beginning there was always a clicking (or even somewhat rattling) regular noise once I shifted to medium or higher power mode and climbed a hill. First, I did not pay too much attention to this as in economic mode (most of my ride) it is almost nonexistent and it does not appear at all when cycling without power. Moreover, this being my first e-bike, I was thinking it might be related somehow to the motor's assistance (however, I later realized that the motor only makes a very quiet wheezing sound)
Long story short, I took it back to my dealer who has represented Kalkhoff for years and seems to be very professional. After having checked my bike, he found nothing wrong. He conceded that this clicking rattling noise apparently exists when switching to higher power mode but this noise is also present to the other kalkhoff bikes they sell. So they found it normal and told me to come back if the problem exacerbates. Actually what they say is true to the extent that while my bike was in reparation, they gave me a new one with Alfine hub gear (instead of derailleur) and it had the same clicking-rattling noise when in higher power modes and climbing. However, another dealer (not the one from whom I bought the bike) told me, after having examined the bike, that this is not normal.
However, I could not let it go as it really disturbed me and you could feel it well in pedals when cycling - this kind of reduces my cycling pleasure. What was especially puzzling is that it got worse after degreasing and chain lubricating, which should normally reduce all sorts of transmission issues. I also read all the post from this forum and others about the noise issue and found that many others have had a similar issue but the solution was not really found or the bike was just replaced.
Therefore, I decided to investigate the problem myself after having read instructions in the flecc's web page dedicated to panasonic crank motor. I checked for all possible issues described on the site - chain, sprockets wear and tear etc. (although I have used the bike only for 1000 miles, so the wear should not really be an issue) but everything seemed normal. But as it is impossible to simulate the real conditions in my garage (the assistance will not kick in), I took off the chain cover (in order to see and hear better) and went to try my bike on a hill. And I made a somewhat surprising discovery, I haven't read about on this site or any other (unfortunately I can only read French and English and not German). This rattling and clicking noise is coming from the chain not properly engaging and jumping on the idler arm's sprocket in higher power modes.
Hence, after coming off from the motor sprocket, the chain does not engage well on idler arm's sprocket and it only happens on the motor sprocket side (not on the derailleur side). So it kind of rules out the that it is caused by the high angles chain forms with derailleur (indeed, problem is present in medium, low as well as high gears, and, as I mentioned before, the Pro Connect with Alfine Hub had the same issue). The chain tension should not cause the problem as well (as I have a derailleur), I think (though I'm far from being an expert). What's more, the chain seems to be perfectly aligned on the motor and idler arm's sprocket. I also checked the distance between the centres of the sprockets(as indicated on flecc's site) and it is well between 60-65 mm as required. Anyway, with newer models you have a metal structure build around idler arm and motor sprocket so that once you tighten the idler arm it slips into a slot and it does nor really move, except a couple of mm (just to be sure, I tried both positions, but the clicking rattling problem remained). Otherwise, both the idler arm's sprocket and the motor sprocket (original, nine teeth version) are well fixated (no side movement) and there is no hindrance to their free movement.
After having done all that I'm short of ideas what to do and how to fix this issue. It seems to me that it is clearly an idler arm's sprocket issue as this sprocket is quite particular. It has 11 blunt teeth, which are very long. Compared to a normal derailleur sprocket, these teeth are twice as long and very blunt. Therefore, it seems to me that after coming off the motor sprocket in higher power modes, this kind of built is not enough to safely engage the chain (it intermittently gets on top of the teeth and jumps back again to the correct engaging position - thus causing the noise). I checked in the internet and found that normally an idler arm's sprocket (in any industry) has either sharp, well engaging teeth (like those of the motor sprocket) or it does not have any teeth at all (like the one cyclone uses for it's crank motor - a plastic tube) so that the chain can just smoothly go over it without any issue. However, before trying to find such a sprocket (which is quite tough because the specifications are not the same - i.e. I also tried to unsuccessfully fit a normal 11 teeth derailleur sprocket, which is too narrow) I wanted to ask for your advice what to do. As I'm just a novice as far as electric bikes go, it might be that I'm completely off with my reasoning. However, as of right now it really seems to be a serial issue for me as it is the same for Alfine hub as well as for derailleur. Moreover, most people, I think, let it go as you barely hear it in traffic (although you can certainly feel it when pedaling in higher assistance modes) and it does not affect the power transmission (motor sprocket works ok) - although it certainly might use the chain out a lot quicker. The proof to that is my dealer (a former semi-professional cyclist) who does not think the noise is a big deal (although he hasn't investigated the cause as I did). I've read a lot of very similar descriptions of this noise problem with new Kalkhoff bikes but no one seems to find a solution (or at least does not post about it) and often the bike is just replaced (with the new bike probably having exactly the same problem but it is too much of a hassle to make a new inquiry)
Finally, I think I've also found the explanation why the problem exacerbates after degreasing and lubricating. The chain becomes much more slippery (I you use a wet lube in winter) and is engaging even worse the blunt and long teeth of the idler arm's sprocket. That is why the problem is less noticeable with a brand new bike with a waxed chain (less slippery). And one more thing (I know, I know, my post is already very long), I was thinking that maybe a 9 teeth motor sprocket somewhat causes the problem, as I've read from somewhere that it should at least be 11 teeth (but due to due legal restrictions, 9 teeth version was fitted) in order all the transmission parts to work smoothly. However, as my motor sprocket works fine, I don't know if it is really an issue. So please tell me what you think and if you have experienced similar problems. I really hope it is not a serial issue. Otherwise, I would have to write to Derby bike directly because my dealer can hardly help with a systematic issue that seems minor to him. I don't want to lose my bike for months as well.
Please forgive me for the length of my post and also for some spelling & language errors
Vaasa,
Paris
I realize that is my first post. So for short introduction, I bought my Proconnect C 9G (2010 version with derailleur) this summer from a major dealer near Paris. I've been very pleased with my bike so far. It really helps me to climb the hills on my commute from Paris to Jouy en Josas (near Versailles)
However, from the very beginning there was always a clicking (or even somewhat rattling) regular noise once I shifted to medium or higher power mode and climbed a hill. First, I did not pay too much attention to this as in economic mode (most of my ride) it is almost nonexistent and it does not appear at all when cycling without power. Moreover, this being my first e-bike, I was thinking it might be related somehow to the motor's assistance (however, I later realized that the motor only makes a very quiet wheezing sound)
Long story short, I took it back to my dealer who has represented Kalkhoff for years and seems to be very professional. After having checked my bike, he found nothing wrong. He conceded that this clicking rattling noise apparently exists when switching to higher power mode but this noise is also present to the other kalkhoff bikes they sell. So they found it normal and told me to come back if the problem exacerbates. Actually what they say is true to the extent that while my bike was in reparation, they gave me a new one with Alfine hub gear (instead of derailleur) and it had the same clicking-rattling noise when in higher power modes and climbing. However, another dealer (not the one from whom I bought the bike) told me, after having examined the bike, that this is not normal.
However, I could not let it go as it really disturbed me and you could feel it well in pedals when cycling - this kind of reduces my cycling pleasure. What was especially puzzling is that it got worse after degreasing and chain lubricating, which should normally reduce all sorts of transmission issues. I also read all the post from this forum and others about the noise issue and found that many others have had a similar issue but the solution was not really found or the bike was just replaced.
Therefore, I decided to investigate the problem myself after having read instructions in the flecc's web page dedicated to panasonic crank motor. I checked for all possible issues described on the site - chain, sprockets wear and tear etc. (although I have used the bike only for 1000 miles, so the wear should not really be an issue) but everything seemed normal. But as it is impossible to simulate the real conditions in my garage (the assistance will not kick in), I took off the chain cover (in order to see and hear better) and went to try my bike on a hill. And I made a somewhat surprising discovery, I haven't read about on this site or any other (unfortunately I can only read French and English and not German). This rattling and clicking noise is coming from the chain not properly engaging and jumping on the idler arm's sprocket in higher power modes.
Hence, after coming off from the motor sprocket, the chain does not engage well on idler arm's sprocket and it only happens on the motor sprocket side (not on the derailleur side). So it kind of rules out the that it is caused by the high angles chain forms with derailleur (indeed, problem is present in medium, low as well as high gears, and, as I mentioned before, the Pro Connect with Alfine Hub had the same issue). The chain tension should not cause the problem as well (as I have a derailleur), I think (though I'm far from being an expert). What's more, the chain seems to be perfectly aligned on the motor and idler arm's sprocket. I also checked the distance between the centres of the sprockets(as indicated on flecc's site) and it is well between 60-65 mm as required. Anyway, with newer models you have a metal structure build around idler arm and motor sprocket so that once you tighten the idler arm it slips into a slot and it does nor really move, except a couple of mm (just to be sure, I tried both positions, but the clicking rattling problem remained). Otherwise, both the idler arm's sprocket and the motor sprocket (original, nine teeth version) are well fixated (no side movement) and there is no hindrance to their free movement.
After having done all that I'm short of ideas what to do and how to fix this issue. It seems to me that it is clearly an idler arm's sprocket issue as this sprocket is quite particular. It has 11 blunt teeth, which are very long. Compared to a normal derailleur sprocket, these teeth are twice as long and very blunt. Therefore, it seems to me that after coming off the motor sprocket in higher power modes, this kind of built is not enough to safely engage the chain (it intermittently gets on top of the teeth and jumps back again to the correct engaging position - thus causing the noise). I checked in the internet and found that normally an idler arm's sprocket (in any industry) has either sharp, well engaging teeth (like those of the motor sprocket) or it does not have any teeth at all (like the one cyclone uses for it's crank motor - a plastic tube) so that the chain can just smoothly go over it without any issue. However, before trying to find such a sprocket (which is quite tough because the specifications are not the same - i.e. I also tried to unsuccessfully fit a normal 11 teeth derailleur sprocket, which is too narrow) I wanted to ask for your advice what to do. As I'm just a novice as far as electric bikes go, it might be that I'm completely off with my reasoning. However, as of right now it really seems to be a serial issue for me as it is the same for Alfine hub as well as for derailleur. Moreover, most people, I think, let it go as you barely hear it in traffic (although you can certainly feel it when pedaling in higher assistance modes) and it does not affect the power transmission (motor sprocket works ok) - although it certainly might use the chain out a lot quicker. The proof to that is my dealer (a former semi-professional cyclist) who does not think the noise is a big deal (although he hasn't investigated the cause as I did). I've read a lot of very similar descriptions of this noise problem with new Kalkhoff bikes but no one seems to find a solution (or at least does not post about it) and often the bike is just replaced (with the new bike probably having exactly the same problem but it is too much of a hassle to make a new inquiry)
Finally, I think I've also found the explanation why the problem exacerbates after degreasing and lubricating. The chain becomes much more slippery (I you use a wet lube in winter) and is engaging even worse the blunt and long teeth of the idler arm's sprocket. That is why the problem is less noticeable with a brand new bike with a waxed chain (less slippery). And one more thing (I know, I know, my post is already very long), I was thinking that maybe a 9 teeth motor sprocket somewhat causes the problem, as I've read from somewhere that it should at least be 11 teeth (but due to due legal restrictions, 9 teeth version was fitted) in order all the transmission parts to work smoothly. However, as my motor sprocket works fine, I don't know if it is really an issue. So please tell me what you think and if you have experienced similar problems. I really hope it is not a serial issue. Otherwise, I would have to write to Derby bike directly because my dealer can hardly help with a systematic issue that seems minor to him. I don't want to lose my bike for months as well.
Please forgive me for the length of my post and also for some spelling & language errors
Vaasa,
Paris
