I thought the motor didn't knew the cadence, but only the output axle speed, whereby a larger motor sprocket would move the assistance field to higher cadences.
No Agattu reviews in forum review section?
- Thread starter SimonHutt
- Start date
Hi Essexman, Bob etc.,
Thanks for all the information you have provided in response to my question about flat performance. Having not ridden an e-bike yet, its all in the imagination for me. It's good to get some subjective thoughts about what it actually feels like riding these machines, as well as the more technical information provided by the likes of Flecc.
I will have some hills to contend with so its great to read all this stuff about them 'galloping' up hills. But what prompted my question is a slight concern at the back of my mind about being limited by undergearing on the flat: as I will be clocking up 14 miles each way on my commute to and from work I need to make good fast progress on the flat, without working up a sweat. My plan is to see how I get on for a bit and then maybe change the rear sprocket, as per Flecc's suggestion, to get a bit more assisted speed on the flat if necessary.
Glad to hear you haven't cancelled your Pro Connect order Bob - I really hope for both our sakes that they arrive soon so we can get on with riding them and comparing notes. There's bottle of champagne ready in the fridge!
Cheers
Chris
Thanks for all the information you have provided in response to my question about flat performance. Having not ridden an e-bike yet, its all in the imagination for me. It's good to get some subjective thoughts about what it actually feels like riding these machines, as well as the more technical information provided by the likes of Flecc.
I will have some hills to contend with so its great to read all this stuff about them 'galloping' up hills. But what prompted my question is a slight concern at the back of my mind about being limited by undergearing on the flat: as I will be clocking up 14 miles each way on my commute to and from work I need to make good fast progress on the flat, without working up a sweat. My plan is to see how I get on for a bit and then maybe change the rear sprocket, as per Flecc's suggestion, to get a bit more assisted speed on the flat if necessary.
Glad to hear you haven't cancelled your Pro Connect order Bob - I really hope for both our sakes that they arrive soon so we can get on with riding them and comparing notes. There's bottle of champagne ready in the fridge!
Cheers
Chris
They do run freely like ordinary bikes on the flat, even more so once they are run in with a couple of hundred miles covered, so good speeds are easy without power. The weight doesn't count on the flat of course.
However, you'll be able to gear up as well no doubt, but your plan to wait and see is usually best.
I've got something more extensive in preparation on this subject which I'll be posting in the next day or two.
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On the Swiss Flyer they use 17 instead of 14 teeth sprockets on the sport version.
They have 150% assist in high power mode instead of 130% and claim that the transmission is stronger than standard Panasonic units.
Me too!
On this topic i have a question. I'd much prefer it if the engine kicked in more at a lower pressure ie cycling fast in the lower gears (this is more my cycling style). That way i could use the eco setting for the flat and retain use of the high power for the hills. Is there a way of achievng this? If your article covers this then i'm happy to wait.
Your welcome Chris !
Im no cycle boffin so I tell it the way it is.
The best way to describe the Panasonic system is to say its like your riding the Kalkhoff with someone grabbing the seat from behind and giving you a constant hard push.
I dont know if your Pal every did that for you when you were a kid, but thats it in it's simplist terms.
Its an unusual feeling and the bike is silent in operation.
Its uncanny as the Scots say!
The only thing I didnt like about the Agattu was the Look (it was the stepthrough) but I think the Pro-Connect clears those issues up for me.
Regards Bob.
No Erik, the output speed is read off one of the internal reduction gears and only affects the internal operation. Changing the size of the external chain sprocket cannot in any way affect the software behaviour. It just means a bigger motor sprocket makes the bike go faster for any given cadence.
Therefore for a fixed road speed, the cadence is lowered with a larger motor sprocket.
A smaller motor sprocket like the 8 tooth would raise the cadence for a given road speed.
But in neither circumstance is the relationship between the output power and cadence changed in any way, the step downs in power assist remain at the same cadence points, only the road speed changing. That's why I say there's no point in changing the motor sprocket when a rear sprocket change will achieve the higher speed.
To use your expression, the assistance field is moved to higher road speeds, not higher cadences.
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Yes, that fast Flyer model uses the old type Panasonic unit with various changes. I don't think it will around for ever though, since these are just using substantial old stocks. Giant still market the old Lafree in their Taiwan home market to use those up likewise.
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Afraid not, the cadence is integral to the electronics. I'm following with a full explanation of exactly why that is.
However, the Eco setting works in the same way as the standard one and at the identical speeds, just the power assist less, so you can use the Eco on the flat as you want to. The cycling cadence doesn't in any way change the relationship between Eco and Standard cadences, the power coming in at equally slow points.
The full explanation will cover that.
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Agattu very first impressions
My Agattu arrived today and was the last of the latest batch of 49cm crossbars, so if you want one you will have to wait for the next batch to come in.
Very first impressions of riding the bicycle without a battery - it does take a long time to charge up doesn't it.
Anybody any idea how to remove the skirt protectors. Not only do I seldom wear a skirt but also Aldby (I think) suggests it rubs the paint off.
I might take into work tomorrow even with those handlebars. I have a feeling it is going to be so slow but we will see. Time to beat is 45 minutes riding time against a restricted Torq.
My Agattu arrived today and was the last of the latest batch of 49cm crossbars, so if you want one you will have to wait for the next batch to come in.
Very first impressions of riding the bicycle without a battery - it does take a long time to charge up doesn't it.
- 50 cycles delivered very quickly (payment cleared on Monday) and the bike seems to have had a good PDI.
- Very well built of course, it is a joy to look at.
- Those handlebars have got to go.
- All gears work. It does feel undergeared compared to the Torq (difficult not to) but I managed to pedal to 22.3 mph on a slight incline without the legs going mad.
- It does feel like a normal bicycle to ride compared to any hub ebike I have ridden but it still feels a heavy old thing compared to my Trek hybrid.
Anybody any idea how to remove the skirt protectors. Not only do I seldom wear a skirt but also Aldby (I think) suggests it rubs the paint off.
I might take into work tomorrow even with those handlebars. I have a feeling it is going to be so slow but we will see. Time to beat is 45 minutes riding time against a restricted Torq.
Careful, you might get to really like the sheer comfort of that type of handlebar.
On paper the average speed is 17 to 20% lower than a restricted Torq, so something in the order of 52 to 54 minutes is probable, but my betting is that you'll arrive more relaxed, and on a working day that's worth quite a lot.
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C
Cyclezee
Guest
Harry
I removed the skirt guards when I had the rear wheel off the replace my rear mudguard, but you should be able to do it with out going to that length.
If you are never going to use them, a quick and crude method would be to use a Stanley knife
John
I removed the skirt guards when I had the rear wheel off the replace my rear mudguard, but you should be able to do it with out going to that length.
If you are never going to use them, a quick and crude method would be to use a Stanley knife
John
Careful, you might get to really like the sheer comfort of that type of handlebar.
On paper the average speed is 17 to 20% lower than a restricted Torq, so something in the order of 52 to 54 minutes is probable, but my betting is that you'll arrive more relaxed, and on a working day that's worth quite a lot.
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45 minutes 35 seconds to be exact. Quite an odd experience compared to the Torq. There were were a few times when I felt more exposed because I couldn't get away as fast as on the Torq. With the Torq you can rattle through the gears as you accelerate, it is a more leasurely affair with the Agattu but not unexpected. Mind you for the first two miles I kept turning the handgrip the wrong way but I think I have got the hang of that now.
Still hate the handlebars, I have got until the weekend to be turned!
So very similar times between the Torq and the Agattu.
Are there any bits of the route where one scores better than the other ?
James
Hi Harry,
Ive got to say i didnt (and wouldnt) buy the Agattu for speed, i bought it because its clearly a hill climber and it looks damn pratical. I'm curious why did you buy one if you have a Torq and you want a fast ebike?
PS I love those handlebars round town, sit back watch the world, catch peoples eye, smile , breath aaaaahhhhh! I feel better just typing it!
Yes very similar times. The main difference it that the Agattu is a lot more free running once the power has stopped. It is quite hard to pedal the Torq above 15 mph and the faster you go the more the motor drags. On the flat I did manage to cruise along at around 16 maybe 17 mph. The Torq as I said is better off the line - there is no way of changing up quickly through the gears with the Agattu. 7th is the most frustrating as it is so reluctant, you cannot just ease off you have to stop pedalling for it to change - this is obviously the best gear. I know Flecc has suggested it will all loosen up after 100 miles or so.
In terms of hill. Most of the hills are on the way back but the Torq has identical time there and back. A pedal cycle would be 10 minutes(!) longer on the return, for reference. There is one long climb on the way to work which knocks back most cyclists. I did overtake the only cyclists and in the middle of the hill when I checked my speed, it was 16 mph - I accept this paints a confusing picture!
My initial thought is that I will not love everything about the Agattu but the advantages (as a day to day commuter bike) will outweigh the disadvantages.
Anything about 17 mph and the cadence is a bit high for me, maybe I have been ruined byt the torq. So I think the gearing will have to change and I am still thinking of the 19 tooth rather than going mad. Maybe I should re-train myself to using higher cadences.
In terms of hill. Most of the hills are on the way back but the Torq has identical time there and back. A pedal cycle would be 10 minutes(!) longer on the return, for reference. There is one long climb on the way to work which knocks back most cyclists. I did overtake the only cyclists and in the middle of the hill when I checked my speed, it was 16 mph - I accept this paints a confusing picture!
My initial thought is that I will not love everything about the Agattu but the advantages (as a day to day commuter bike) will outweigh the disadvantages.
Anything about 17 mph and the cadence is a bit high for me, maybe I have been ruined byt the torq. So I think the gearing will have to change and I am still thinking of the 19 tooth rather than going mad. Maybe I should re-train myself to using higher cadences.
Your restricted Torq was slower than I thought then Hal, I always had mine derestricted so couldn't really judge.
The gear change will loosen, but I strongly recommend stopping pedalling for all gear changes on hub gears. This business of changing on the fly was introduced in later years by Shimano to try and show an advantage over competitors, but it always leads to higher failure rates. Their marketing tactic worked for their derailleurs because they had patented physical differences that really do make their change faster.
Of course they don't mind people graunching their hubs as it just means plenty of insert sales at around £100 each.
Years ago when there were only hub gears and everyone knew how to use them and always stopped pedalling to change, they lasted for decades. I saw them still running well in the 1950s after being in daily commuting use from the early 1930s, but these days thanks to Shimano's ill advised ideas, it's not uncommon to find people going through inserts at one or two a year even, and all makes.
Only a couple of weeks ago someone mailed me to say they'd had four SRAM P5 hubs go in as many years, and that's acknowledged to be the strongest hub gear on the market. With my brutally heavy towing in one of our hilliest areas, one P5 lasted me four years before failing, simply due to pausing for changes.
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The gear change will loosen, but I strongly recommend stopping pedalling for all gear changes on hub gears. This business of changing on the fly was introduced in later years by Shimano to try and show an advantage over competitors, but it always leads to higher failure rates. Their marketing tactic worked for their derailleurs because they had patented physical differences that really do make their change faster.
Of course they don't mind people graunching their hubs as it just means plenty of insert sales at around £100 each.
Years ago when there were only hub gears and everyone knew how to use them and always stopped pedalling to change, they lasted for decades. I saw them still running well in the 1950s after being in daily commuting use from the early 1930s, but these days thanks to Shimano's ill advised ideas, it's not uncommon to find people going through inserts at one or two a year even, and all makes.
Only a couple of weeks ago someone mailed me to say they'd had four SRAM P5 hubs go in as many years, and that's acknowledged to be the strongest hub gear on the market. With my brutally heavy towing in one of our hilliest areas, one P5 lasted me four years before failing, simply due to pausing for changes.
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There are many reasons for buying the Agattu. I have been running a Torq as an every day commuting bike so for me they are very apparent. You have bought yours for (maybe) a different reason - leasure. But in answer, yes time is an issue getting to and from work but I don't forsee the Agattu will be much slower than the Torq in the end.
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