News - DfT: Pedal cycles converted to ‘twist and go’ exempt from type approval

[flecc]

This does not make any sense.The hombuild rules needed clearing up this has done that sort of.But why a shop bought EAPC can't have one is beyond me.

It's as I've repeatedly explained Craiggor, manufacturer built EAPCs cannot have an independent throttle, since their exemption from type approval prevents one being fitted.

Since neither the EU or the British have legislated on self builds, they can get away with having one. They do not need an exemption from a law that doesn't apply, so nothing is preventing the throttle.

In truth the EU wouldn't want self build to have throttles either, but since self builds are such a tiny issue they haven't bothered with a law for them. All authorities don't like self builds, just look at the kit car industry which has been severely affected by restrictions in the UK and virtually stamped out in the EU.

Kudos Dave can tell you all about that.
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[flecc]

by admitting that home build with twist and go is legal, I think the DfT won't be able to punish anyone using a twist and go throttle on a shop bought bike.

Obviously this will be widely ignored and many throttles fitted with no-one trying to prosecute, that's always been the case with pedelec law.

Technically a successful prosecution is certainly possible since a law is being broken, but no-one will ever bother, it's too much trouble for a miniscule technicality.

There are more serious issues to attend to. For example, this morning I bought a pack of Chicken Liver Pate labelled as such from Sainsburys.

In small print at the bottom of the label it reads:

Made in the UK using British pork.

So now I don't know if the pigs laid eggs or the chickens went Oink.
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[Benjahmin]

I can just see it now. You get pulled over, and Mr Plod has to go to the boot of his car and extract a mighty file of all manufactured bikes, to check if yours is on it or not !!! Yeh right.
Things like this demonstrate perfectly what happens when government gets too big and seeks to micro-manage it's subjects lives.........no, hang on, I thought they were our servants?
I understand why everyone's trying to get clarity but it really is like furckling around in the minutiae of who gives a.............

 

[craiggor]

It only becomes a problem if you hit or are hit by someone .I tell everyone if you hit or are hit by a ebike take a close look at the bike.

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[Kudoscycles]

So its now very simple for the police to sort it out.
Sir we saw you using a twist and go throttle on that bike.
Yes officer its got grandfather rights,imported before Jan 2016
or
Yes officer,the throttle only works when I'm turning the pedals
or
Yes officer,I converted it myself ,rode the bike first,then fitted the throttle
or
Yes officer,I had the bike professionally converted,then decided to fit a throttle.
He also has to understand S-class,dongles,the differences between set off throttles and 15 mph throttles.....nothing stopping a twist and go only operating up to 5 mph,but would the officer understand that.
They have managed to make it virtually impossible to prosecute anybody using a twist and go throttle,there are more loopholes than a crochet jumper.
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

Yes officer,I converted it myself ,rode the bike first,then fitted the throttle
or
Yes officer,I had the bike professionally converted,then decided to fit a throttle.

In these two cases the throttle can be fitted immediately with the conversion.

The law requires the motorised conversion is separate, following the unpowered bike being used first. Since used only constitutes the owner wheeling the bike a foot or two, the whole thing could be virtually one operation on a new bike.

The cautious might like to ensure they have separate invoices with the motor kit one at least a day later.
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[Alan Quay]

So now I don't know if the pigs laid eggs or the chickens went Oink.
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I expected a better grasp of basic biology from you Flecc. A pig is a mammal, so it gives birth to live chickens.



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[KirstinS]

So its now very simple for the police to sort it out.
Sir we saw you using a twist and go throttle on that bike.
Yes officer its got grandfather rights,imported before Jan 2016
or
Yes officer,the throttle only works when I'm turning the pedals
or
Yes officer,I converted it myself ,rode the bike first,then fitted the throttle
or
Yes officer,I had the bike professionally converted,then decided to fit a throttle.
He also has to understand S-class,dongles,the differences between set off throttles and 15 mph throttles.....nothing stopping a twist and go only operating up to 5 mph,but would the officer understand that.
They have managed to make it virtually impossible to prosecute anybody using a twist and go throttle,there are more loopholes than a crochet jumper.
KudosDave

Perfectly put, that's my understanding now as well

I'm simply astounded though. The man hours and meetings and lobby groups to fix the old laws......and we end up here a few years later

Personally I'm happy as I build my own bikes and like a throttle

It's nearly French in its bureaucratic madness.

 

[shambolic]

I'm really pleased about these loopholes. I was rather concerned that when my old throttle bike expires things would get difficult. I tried pedal only and just couldn't physically do it. It may be complicated but it's much less complicated than trying to get home when your legs have given out.

 

[Kudoscycles]

What constitutes a self build.....fitting the battery?

 

[flecc]

What constitutes a self build.....fitting the battery?

No, the start has to be a normal bicycle that has been ridden, however briefly. Then an electric assist conversion (including throttle if wished) can be added.

Starting with a bicycle that already includes almost all the electrics is far outside the spirit of the law.

There's no reasn why a supplier like yourself cannot sell the two parts against two orders from someone. The unpowered bike first with invoice, then the motor kit with separate later dated invoice. The buyer will be on trust to have ridden the bike before fitting the motor kit.

Alternatively one of your dealers can carry out the two transactions and do the conversion if wished.
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[Ray Breen]

No, the start has to be a normal bicycle that has been ridden, however briefly. Then an electric assist conversion (including throttle if wished) can be added.

Starting with a bicycle that already includes almost all the electrics is far outside the spirit of the law.

There's no reasn why a supplier like yourself cannot sell the two parts against two orders from someone. The unpowered bike first with invoice, then the motor kit with separate later dated invoice. The buyer will be on trust to have ridden the bike before fitting the motor kit.

Alternatively one of your dealers can carry out the two transactions and do the conversion if wished.
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i have been reading this thread with interest..

Yea, no reason why you cannot test drive the bike(prior to e-fitting) to confirm that there are no mechanical issues then afterwards fit the electrical components.

Granted that this approach while strictly speaking is legal, it does go against the spirit of the regulation.

food for thought

 

[flecc]

Granted that this approach while strictly speaking is legal, it does go against the spirit of the regulation.

I don't think seriously so though. The most important part of the law with self builds is that they are not subject to type approval, even if all brand new items are used without any prior riding.

I think the DfT has mentioned converting existing unpowered bikes in an attempt to avoid the most blatant commercial supply, such as supplying an EAPC less battery and just adding that, as mentioned earlier.

But nowhere in the law is it stated that an unpowered bike must be used before conversion, so using all new is entirely legal.
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[Ray Breen]

I don't think seriously so though. The most important part of the law with self builds is that they are not subject to type approval, even if all brand new items are used without any prior riding.

I think the DfT has mentioned converting existing unpowered bikes in an attempt to avoid the most blatant commercial supply, such as supplying an EAPC less battery and just adding that, as mentioned earlier.

But nowhere in the law is it stated that an unpowered bike must be used before conversion, so using all new is entirely legal.
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Yes I agree, all things considered this is a very minor possible flout of the law. In the scheme of things and being pragmatic, the powers that be , have other more important things to prioritise.

 

[shambolic]

I've always suspected that the no throttle rule was applied to cowtow to the Moped manufacturers, in which case this loophole is very much in the spirit of the law i.e. no mass produced potential competition.

 

[shemozzle999]

No rude words,the guy who tried to register his trike made from truck components was told big ******* was not allowed.Do we have a name for this new class ?

Point taken, probably safer to remove manufacturer and state it as EAPC Conversion or EAPC Homebuild on the label.

 

[Benjahmin]

OMG !


Seriously, the tax we've all paid has gone into this?​

 

[Paulius55]

I am delighted at this new revelation as I am one of the relatively few who have converted my own bike, and I mean properly converted, from a standard bike to an EPAC. I can now set my thumb lever back to 25 kph instead of 6 kph, even though I almost never use the thumb lever anyway. I don't like the reference to "throttle", as a motorcyclist this means opening up the airway to me, not moving a rheostat.

 

[craiggor]

Yes shemozzle,a EAPCC or EAPCHB.I would say its the EAPC letters that need to be omited.I think i will follow what it says on Gov.UK.a EAPC needs power output or name of manufacture of motor, and the battery voltage or max speed.And leave out the letters EAPC.Is it in the legislation that pedelecs need the letters EAPC ?

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[danielrlee]

I am delighted at this new revelation as I am one of the relatively few who have converted my own bike, and I mean properly converted, from a standard bike to an EPAC. I can now set my thumb lever back to 25 kph instead of 6 kph, even though I almost never use the thumb lever anyway. I don't like the reference to "throttle", as a motorcyclist this means opening up the airway to me, not moving a rheostat.

Technically you're rotating a magnetic field around a sensor - potentiometers are very rarely used for electronic control anymore.