newbie questions for ebike build

Meto

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 6, 2020
6
0
Hello. I`m trying to build ebike but staying on legal limits, but need some advice and recommendations.
Hub motor I pick is Voilmart 36V 250W I want to pair it with 48V Battery. in that case which KT or other controller be best to use(best affordable display with it?)? I read here keeping amps to 15 is the safest way? Also about the battery what would you recommend 17AH or it can handle 20Ah? I`m not sure about that but I read that 250W hub motors cant handle 13S batteries and limit is 12S is that right? Just to mention I'm not for high speed. What I'm looking for is range. Many thanks!
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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One can use a battery of any capacity (ah/wh), all extra ah/wh does is increase possible range and keep the power/voltage higher for a little longer (as well as being heavier). Just buy the correct voltage. 12s isn't common for Li-on so stick with 13s unless you are self building.

Best LCD from KT is the LCD3 or LCD4 if you want very small.
Controller wise try and buy the S09S with 9 fets the smaller 6 fets can have heat issues if riding slow/on long or steep inclines, current wise don't be limited to just 15a controllers, the KT's can have the current value reduced via the LCD.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
9,822
3,993
Basildon
Hello. I`m trying to build ebike but staying on legal limits, but need some advice and recommendations.
Hub motor I pick is Voilmart 36V 250W I want to pair it with 48V Battery. in that case which KT or other controller be best to use(best affordable display with it?)? I read here keeping amps to 15 is the safest way? Also about the battery what would you recommend 17AH or it can handle 20Ah? I`m not sure about that but I read that 250W hub motors cant handle 13S batteries and limit is 12S is that right? Just to mention I'm not for high speed. What I'm looking for is range. Many thanks!
You have to understand how motor speed works. The maximum speed is proportional to the voltage.

Motors don't care about voltage. 100v would be OK for the motor. It's heat and current that damage motors.

Torque is directly proportional to current, so high current can damage the gears. High current also causes a lot of heat.

Heat comes from the inefficiency of the motor. The motor is most efficient at about 75% of the max rpm (affected by battery voltage). Once the rpm goes below 50% of maximum, the efficiency accelerates downwards and the heat accelerates upwards. That's under the condition of full power. When you apply less than full power, it has the same effect as reducing the voltage. Basically, your goal is to avoid using full power at less than 50% of maximum rpm.

Lets look at your Voilamart 36v 250w motor: They don't give any info about the motor's max speed, except that they say that you'll be pedalling at 16mph without sweat, so I'd assume that it's a normal 260 rpm motor and 16mph is 210 rpm in a 26" wheel, which is close to the 75% where the motor makes it's best power and efficiency, so a good choice if you want to ride around at 16mph with a 36v battery. When you run it at 48v, it becomes a 338 rpm motor (x13/10) and it's best power and efficiency comes at 20.8 mph. If you want to stick to the legal 15.5mph, that's not going to be good for range because 15.5 mph is in the range where efficiency is lower.


To travel at the legal limit at 48v, you need a 260 rpm 48v motor; however, a 201 rpm 36v one run at 48v would give you the 260 rpm. In fact a 201 rpm 36v motor and a 48v 260 rpm one would be identical in all respects. They would be the same motor apart from the label.

You can buy 201 rpm motor wheels, but you don't normally find them in kits. You can get them from BMSBattery and Greenbike kit plus some other Chinese resellers.

If you wanted ultimate range and efficiency, you should get a 201 rpm 48v motor, which will give good power up to about 13 mph and enough power to maintain a comfortable 15 mph cruising speed, but you have to also consider the state of charge of the battery. You get the 48v at about 60% fully charged, where those figures for speed apply. At 100% charged you get about 54v and when empty, you get around 40v, so those speeds will reduce by 20% when your battery is flat. That's no problem if you use the motor mainly for hills, but it's not going to work as a fast long range commuter.

Battery size has no effect on the motor, except that it will take longer for the voltage to go down, so you get more power compared with a lower capacity battery over the same distance, but you get the penalty of weight. A light bike is always better than a heavy one. Each 1kg you add increases the power needed to get you up/along any incline by approx 1%, no matter how steep or not steep.

A final point about why to use 48v. You get 30% more power for the same current and the power you get from 36v at 15 amps is not enough for steep hills unless you're light and/or fit. The extra 30% makes all the difference. You can always turn the power down when you don't want it, but you can't turn it up if you don't have it.

In summary, the best motor/battery voltage is the setup that gets the motor running at 75% of it's maximum speed (considering how that's affected by battery voltage) when riding at your modal speed.
 
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Meto

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 6, 2020
6
0
Thank you to both of you for very decent information! I`m not sure I can handle to buy only hub motor (without kit) and set it up. So as much as I can understand voilmart hub with 48v battery is fine for 20mph speed but not bellow that? I still didn't order anything yet... so if there is any other better motor kit in the same price range that you can suggest maybe? What about yose power 250w? Many thanks
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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Basildon
Thank you to both of you for very decent information! I`m not sure I can handle to buy only hub motor (without kit) and set it up. So as much as I can understand voilmart hub with 48v battery is fine for 20mph speed but not bellow that? I still didn't order anything yet... so if there is any other better motor kit in the same price range that you can suggest maybe? What about yose power 250w? Many thanks
All kits are good. It's only when you add constraints, like "I want 48v and good efficiency and legal", that you have to be more discerning. One thing to look out for if you want efficiency is that the very cheap kits don't have LCDs that let you use different levels of power with the PAS. They only have on or off full power when you pedal, which isn't very pleasant, so avoid those and get a kit with an LCD.
 
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Meto

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 6, 2020
6
0
Found a 36V 250W hub motor with all kit and controller KT 9 mosfet LCD3 from China. The thing worries me is now supplier is saying they don't recommend 48V Battery for their kit even controller is 36/48V. I Also asked for motor rpm and they said is 320. According to that, I need lowest rpm then that is that hub will go fine with 36V battery I mean enough power for step hills etc?
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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Basildon
There are a lot of options there and you haven't said which one you're thinking about. In case you don't know, even the 250w one is probably illegal.

Assuming that it's the large direct drive motor in the picture, They run best at 25 amps and upwards. I think even the 9FET controller would be very weak at 36v. These motors are better for riding at a constant high speed. They can become very inefficient for stop start riding or hilly riding. What you save on the kit, you lose on the battery because you need a one that can continually provide high current, which rules out all the cheaper ones.

If you tell us about yourself and the type of rides you're planning, we might be able to guide you to a suitable solution.
 

Meto

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 6, 2020
6
0
Well i`m going to use the bike in city (North London). I`m thinking to give a try for food delivery (not sure about that yet), weekend trip (when there is good weather :D).
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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Looking at it again, it appears that the 250w and 350w ones are geared motors. 320 rpm would be OK at 36v, but wouldn't work at 48v because it would become too fast for its power it would run very inefficiently and it would overheat the controller. At 36v, the 9FET (probably 22 amps) would be about right for deliveries, but you still would need a decent battery.

I don't understand how you came to that price. When I do it, the kit is $170 plus $50 shipping, then about £40 duty, etc., so about £200 in total. You'd also need a toque arm plus a crank removal tool and a freewheel tool. With a freewheel, you can only go as high as 7 speeds, so if you have more than that on your bike, you're going to have to do something with your shifter.
 

Meto

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 6, 2020
6
0
So in that case going to voilmart kit is a better option (less hassle)? Then get a decent controller and display separately? Could explain also about battery what parameters should I check except Ah`s and Voltage? Many thanks
 

vfr400

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Jun 12, 2011
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Basildon
Could explain also about battery what parameters should I check except Ah`s and Voltage? Many thanks
The battery has to be able to provide the current that the controller allows. That becomes more important as the specified motor rpm goes up.

For a 22 amp controller, you need a battery that can provide at least 25 amps continuous. Some of the cheaper ones can only manage 15 or 20 amps.

With a slower motor, say 230 -250 rpm, you could probably get away with a 20 amp continuous battery as long as the max current that it can supply is well above 22 amps.