newbie...a short list for pros/cons advice or any better recommendations

[Hanslowmo]

hi,
i must start off by saying i am a complete newbie and have no knowledge of electric bikes other than what i have read online, so feel free to ridicule my lack of knowledge, ignorance or misperceptions.
i am going to test ride a few bikes on monday so first hand experience will be mine hehe.

anyway, i will be using the bike for shop runs but also travel between cities and possible camping trips(i am dreading i just said that because i now say i hope to buy a hurley 'golf trolley'(lol forget what its called) trailer and probably will get advised bikes i dont fancy because of load considerations). i am 5'11 by the way and approx 90kgs.

in an ideal world, there are 2 bikes that i like the look of- one because its good value and a crank motor and the other because it has what i consider the best most advanced crank motor and advanced gear system though the motor not as good as on my cheaper choice i feel though am probably wrong. the 2nd bike is the only mb in the uk i can find with the specs for the price.

anyway a few of my thoughts, sorry if i bore you. initially i thought get a folding, it will be so convenient hopping on and off a train but then i thought humping it around in a bag etc when i have other luggage kinda defeats the purpose and full size r meatier so scrubbed off my one folding bike i liked the look of, the new version gocycle.

i really do like the look of the futuristic ebikes, ie gocycle, smart bike, a2b metro. appearance is a big thing with me. smart bike seems very niche-people say they like it but i dont see anyone saying they own one. a2b metro was and is still on my list but it doesnt go great distances apparently even with a 2nd battery and i am worried it wont go uphill.

so onto the more conventional ebikes. after reading everything, i still keep coming back to the tonaro bighit. it ticks all the boxes for me and i dont know why but i think i want a crank motored bike..will probably change after test rides but the idea of switching off and cycling normally without 'pedal tension' (?) is a big plus. the bighit gets rave reviews and is good value. now other bike i am interested in which i will not be test riding on monday is the moustache samedi nuvinci. cost aside, it looks good. i really fancy getting a bike with the new nuvinci n360 drive with auto setting. so much so that i would consider getting an ebike and paying to buy the nuvinci gear seperately and having it installed in place of stock gears-will bike shops do that? will the nuvinci struggle with hills or towing a load(though ive heard towing a load is lighter than as if it was on bike??) right other bike options im thinking are Neo Cross and Ave range bikes and Ecobike Adventure.
Range is important but not a deal breaker as ill just buy another battery if the bikes not too expensive.

Price range is up to 2.45k thereabouts but not averse to spending a lot less

advice is appreciated. sorry if it seems that ive allready decided. i havent but everyone has an opinion of what they like, im hoping guys /ladies with greater knowledge can advise and encourage /. discourage me.
thanks in advance, all.

 

[GaRRy]

Well you are certainly spreading the net wide and I really cant see why most if not all of the ones you have mentioned could be the right bike for you. But what you really need to do is hunt out places to go and try as many bikes as you can as whats right on paper/for someone you may actually really hate when you try it.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

My advice is to try a few bikes. I would advise trying both hub and crank powered bikes. They both ride very differently so it is best to know which suits you best. Several bike have nuvinci so no need to fit seperately. Good luck with the search!

 

[Geebee]

If you are going to be hauling a load or climbing steep hills I think you are right in looking at crank drives, my local terrain is steep and my crank drive has ruined any chance of going back to hub drive.
I love the look of the Moustache as well but it doesn't appear to have a lot of adjustment so would need a test ride for fit.
Good luck.

 

[Hanslowmo]

Well you are certainly spreading the net wide and I really cant see why most if not all of the ones you have mentioned could be the right bike for you. But what you really need to do is hunt out places to go and try as many bikes as you can as whats right on paper/for someone you may actually really hate when you try it.

Thanks for advice..bit confused about the 'for someone statement...' Its probably my humour sensors shutting down or something.
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@electrifyingcycles. Thanks for advice about crank motors..i quickly wrote them down from the atob list and there didnt seem that many which kind of surprised me for something good. There seems many more hub motors so will probably end up with one of them but the funs in finding out.

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@geebee. Good to know a crank drive would be suitable for hauling stuff. Thanks, info is appreciated
Hauling stuff by bike trailer is pretty niche stuff i imagine so wasnt sure.

 

[GaRRy]

Thanks for advice..bit confused about the 'for someone statement...' Its probably my humour sensors shutting down or something.
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@electrifyingcycles. Thanks for advice about crank motors..i quickly wrote them down from the atob list and there didnt seem that many which kind of surprised me for something good. There seems many more hub motors so will probably end up with one of them but the funs in finding out.

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@geebee. Good to know a crank drive would be suitable for hauling stuff. Thanks, info is appreciated
Hauling stuff by bike trailer is pretty niche stuff i imagine so wasnt sure.

Should of been someone else.

ie just because someone else thinks a bike is great does not mean you will agree when you try it.

Oh and dont fall for the cranks are best up hill argument as there are some very good hub hill climbers the same as there as some very poor crank ones. You still need to try both to see which you prefer.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Definately more hub bikes around but plenty of crank drives too. Personally I am looking forward to riding panasonic hub drive bike

 

[flecc]

Hauling stuff by bike trailer is pretty niche stuff i imagine so wasnt sure.

Crank drive can have an advantage when hauling heavy loads up the steepest hills. The webpage below shows the crank and hub drive bikes I've used for the purpose. These perform equally on moderately steep hills, the crank drive having peak gross power of 400 watts but to do the same thing, the hub drive has peak gross power of 1000 watts. That clearly shows the crank drive benefit for heavy hauling, though for most general cycling there's nothing much in it:

Heavy load trailers

 

[Hanslowmo]

@garry oh right cheers. Your / placement threw me when i read it. Id have put a comma 2 words on. Lol i hope you can see how i read it and was confused. On reading what you put, gawd i feel stupid lol . (Dont know how i missed that. Thought your last sentence there was shorter but as there's no edit, my mistake-will have to take greater care in what i read next time). The cranks uphill being better is said quite a bit but there does seem to be a good many hub bikes out there (more than crank it appears to me) so they cant be all rubbish at up hill.
@flecc great news cheers. Not having ridden any ebike yet, still early days for me but i was leaning towards crank before and what you said helps the cause. End of day, sense of whats right for me will win out as garry said but +1 for cranks

 

[Hanslowmo]

As regards the most costly ebikes (for me) that ive seen ,theres really 2 im leaning towards- the moustache samedi nuvinci and the kalkhoff impulse ergo. the ergo at first i thought eww no crossbar but thinking about it, if im going from a to b or camping, i may be weighted down or if ive just humped shopping bags to my bike i may be kna****ed so a step through might be better lol even though ive thought they looked like ladies bikes. so i suppose its impulse v bosch with these 2. the sahel i360 harmony looks similar to the ergo too but with different forks. also i downloaded the 2013 kalkhoff catalogue and i noticed the different models do have different style frames which surprised me with so many models.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

KTM also do a nice Nuvinci with the large 400wh battery (11ah). It is available in stepthrough, crossbar and lowstep options. You are spoilt for choice.

 

[Honeypie]

Another newbie here,
I have recently purchased a pedelec called ee-move-mee. An importer from Northland (I'm in NZ) brings them in from china. If you google ee-move-mee, you can see my daughter and her man trying it out in my street. Regarding the crank motor, I don't have one, but was able to change the front sprocket (up a bit) as it was too easy to pedal. Maybe this is not possible with a crank-drive?

 

[Hanslowmo]

@electrifying ktm nuvinci looks interesting proposition. thanks for the info, ill add it to the list

@honeypie hello fellow newbie. i have no idea on crank motors but im sure one of the other members will have a good idea. welcome to the forum (if you get no answers here, you may have to make a thread about it.)

@bosch crank drive battery knowledgable type folks or moustache ebike experts ...i dont suppose you know but how easy is it to put the larger 400ah new bosch battery on a bike in place of the 300ah one... reason im asking is the moustache samedi nuvinci comes with 300ah battery only and no greater option as far as i can tell with the new bosch motor but bosch do indeed do the 400ah battery ...can they be swapped out or might it not fit?? im comparing the moustache to the kalkhoffs with nuvinci and need the bigger battery to match on range even though the 300 is rangerific ,i want more if it can do it

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

The 400wh battery is the same size so no problem swapping batteries. However I would ask for it at the time of buying as it will probably work out cheaper e.g. KTM with larger battery is £2499 (RRP).

 

[103Alex1]

The 400wh battery is the same size so no problem swapping batteries. However I would ask for it at the time of buying as it will probably work out cheaper e.g. KTM with larger battery is £2499 (RRP).

That's handy.

I think the problem was with the Moustache not being available with the battery upgrade at the time of purchase (always much cheaper than buying the bike with the smaller one and having to buy an extra battery if there is an upgrade option at the time of purchase).

You could always sell on a brand new lower Ah battery to someone looking for a replacement, provided they are the same physical size and same connectors though - which it seems in the case of these 2 Bosch batteries they are. Provided they are the same voltage and both fit the frame attachment and battery connector then it should be fine to buy the upgraded battery and fit it in place of the original one.

im comparing the moustache to the kalkhoffs with nuvinci and need the bigger battery to match on range

Note the Sahel has a 540Wh battery like the Agattu so even with the bigger 400Wh Bosch battery on the Moustache the capacity of the Kalkhoff battery is consideraby greater. They are all 36v I think.

 

[Hanslowmo]

@electrifying. That is brilliant news, it gives me options.

Note the Sahel has a 540Wh battery like the Agattu so even with the bigger 400Wh Bosch battery on the Moustache the capacity of the Kalkhoff battery is consideraby greater. They are all 36v I think.

Alex, yes indeed, if it came with the option id look towards that. Ive not spoken to the uk stockist so perhaps they could wangle something if i went for the samedi nuvinci. They do a 400ah samedi model but not on the nuvinci version . As regards, battery, yup the sahel is bigger but lol i shouldnt say this because they may take notice but kalkhoff have done a brilliant 2013 ebike catalogue and it has motor range comparisons and if i remember correctly, the bosch 400 is the same range if not then almost the same as the impulse so it may be torque or just how its designed- maybe it has more ooommmphi dont know.

 

[103Alex1]

lol i shouldnt say this because they may take notice but kalkhoff have done a brilliant 2013 ebike catalogue and it has motor range comparisons and if i remember correctly, the bosch 400 is the same range if not then almost the same as the impulse so it may be torque or just how its designed- maybe it has more ooommmphi dont know.

Interesting - do you have a link ? Be good to check that out.

The only thing I've seen on their website on Bosch batteries is this, which gives the 8Ah battery a 35km range estimate (presumably on an S class bike)

Kalkhoff : Bosch

- about one sixth of that of the 540Wh one they use with Impulse bikes

Kalkhoff : Impulse

Be careful of comparisons of range claims on different dealer sites ...and between different capacity motors. If a bike has more "oomph", chances are it will be more power hungry - motors use most power on start-up and at low speeds. On longer journeys more of it is at more efficient speeds so the total Wh is much more relevant to range.

Also take with a pinch of salt and reduce by 60%+ any max range claims to give a fair idea of realistic range in stop-start city riding or on very hilly routes using high power assist. For example if you start with a 60 mile range claim you might get 24 miles if you are lucky - 11 miles there and the same back - which is not a busting lot if you want to go off for the day on a Sunday with gear and spare your legs

 

[Hanslowmo]

Yup no probs Alex,

Page 11 of the first catalogue
Kalkhoff : Downloads

 

[103Alex1]

Yup no probs Alex,

Page 11 of the first catalogue
Kalkhoff : Downloads

Very interesting lolz. How marketing assertions change from one year to the next ! There must be people on here with Bosch 11Ah batteries who can give you their own experiences of realistic battery performance ranges in a variety of conditions as a more reliable guide - which you can adjust for any weight differentials viz bike, yourself and typical terrain. Also if you are towing and loading your bike you'll probs use a lot more battery cumulatively so you are right to go for as much battery as you can get your hands on whilst still remaining in budget and without taking on the hasstle of charging and looking after 2.

The fact they say battery range can be up to 7 times more on most than least pretty much says it all though - the genuinely realisable max range on the bike you actually buy will always be a shot in the dark near as but some battery/motor combos likely drop more power than others in response to different combos of influencing variables. It's characteristic reliable performance for your likely use that matters most - and best way to get a reasonable steer on that is to ask someone who rides one every day and compare how they ride / how much power assist they use . Even then it's "how long is a piece of string". Crackers really !

 

[Hanslowmo]

Think i may have bitten off more than i can chew with all these thoughts. My head is starting to spin lol. Middle of next week after a few test rides i will be more grounded (hopefully )
I know there are a lot of variables so exact figures cannot be given but a specific bike manufacturer giving ranges about different drives is as impartial as i think i can get though i suppose it depends if theyre just going from the drive manufacturers advertising bumff and will defer to that if queried.