New to e-bikes-looking for advice

[Ds_77]

Hi,

I am after a bit of advice on buying an electric bike and am also wondering if I am after the impossible!

To keep this brief, I am after a bike that will mainly be used to deliver/fetch my son from nursery (10 mile round trip done twice a day, twice a week 700ft gain each ‘round’). I pull him in a trailer on rainy days, otherwise he’s on a saddle in front of me (kids ride shotgun).

I’m after a bike that:

• I can pull a trailer with (ie I can fit an attachment to the back wheel)
• I can attached a shotgun seat in front of me ( not sure how possible this is as many electric bikes seem to have a huge down tube and the saddle fits onto the top tube and down tube)
• I can choose to ride as a ‘normal’ bike should I wish. I.e. without power. So not a really heavy bike
• I want it to look like a ‘normal’ bike rather than one of those tank type things (tern etc)

I’m 6ft and 89kg, while my son is ~19kg. I’m fit and healthy and the only reason I’m after an electric is to make our commute quicker as it’s eating into my work time and is getting to the point that physically it’s killing me! Not the distance but the hills…I’m in Sheffield.

I’m vaguely aware there are different types of motors (powered wheels vs powered front cog or something?! Is one or another better for my described situation?), batteries etc but I’m clueless. I read things about torque and I’ve no idea what it all means.

I’ve been looking but it’s all very confusing to my Luddite brain!

Any help or pointers gratefully received!

 

[saneagle]

If you already have a bike that you're happy with, you can fit a crank motor kit from Woosh. It's not difficult and easily done in an afternoon. Are you any good at DIY? If not, who's going to fix and service your new bike?

 

[thelarkbox]

Its not just your luddite brain @Ds_77,Tho @saneagle above Knows his e-bikes. So Following his lead will get you and your lad tootling up your hills effortlessly..

HomCom trailers are pretty cheap and work well, newer ones (than mine) have spring suspension even now. the weakest aspect is the connecting steel hitch spring will flex a bit on a ride and that isnt a very confidence inspiring a feeling although it is by design and has never failed or shown signs of failure..

 

[Ds_77]

Thanks both. I already have a trailer (croozer) but thanks for the thought @thelarkbox

@saneagle I’d previously seen converter kits but didn’t look too far and what I did see looked to be about £1k so I reasoned it may be worth just getting something new.I hadn’t given much (any!) thought to servicing an electric, though currently on my manual bike it is partly me with minor repairs and the occasional ‘chuck it at my local bike shop and ask them to do it’. Time vs money…

I’d seen references to the Whoosh bikes while looking at other threads here, but hadn’t noticed the motor kits you mentioned. I’ll check them out.

Thanks both!

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Thanks both. I already have a trailer (croozer) but thanks for the thought @thelarkbox

@saneagle I’d previously seen converter kits but didn’t look too far and what I did see looked to be about £1k so I reasoned it may be worth just getting something new.I hadn’t given much (any!) thought to servicing an electric, though currently on my manual bike it is partly me with minor repairs and the occasional ‘chuck it at my local bike shop and ask them to do it’. Time vs money…

I’d seen references to the Whoosh bikes while looking at other threads here, but hadn’t noticed the motor kits you mentioned. I’ll check them out.

Thanks both!

Tongsheng TSDZ2 and TSDZ8 CD kits | Chain Drive Electric Bike Kits from Woosh

The TSDZ2 CD kit: we have two models, with and without throttle.

wooshbikes.co.uk

 

[sjpt]

saneagle's suggestion of a crank conversion is likely to be best. You may well lose the front gears, but the big benefit is that the motor will be taking advantage of the gears you have. A hub motor (front or back) can start labouring on steep hills; as it slows down it becomes less efficient.

A crank motor increases wear on the drivetrain; a hub motor decreases it.

I'd recommend Woosh; they'll also give good advice on the best choice.

A rack battery may get in the way of trailer mounting, depending on the trailer.
A front tube battery may get in the way of mounting the front saddle, again depending on the exact saddle mounting. (The one we had 40 years ago had very simple top tube mount only; most modern ones are much more sophisticated)

 

[saneagle]

Thanks both. I already have a trailer (croozer) but thanks for the thought @thelarkbox

@saneagle I’d previously seen converter kits but didn’t look too far and what I did see looked to be about £1k so I reasoned it may be worth just getting something new.I hadn’t given much (any!) thought to servicing an electric, though currently on my manual bike it is partly me with minor repairs and the occasional ‘chuck it at my local bike shop and ask them to do it’. Time vs money…

I’d seen references to the Whoosh bikes while looking at other threads here, but hadn’t noticed the motor kits you mentioned. I’ll check them out.

Thanks both!

Woosh TSDZ8 kit is £385. You can get a decent battery from Greenlance or Yosepower for about £250. If you want/need a rack battery, your choice is a bit more limited. Woosh do the complete kit with a rack battery for £740.

Most of the ready-made bikes in that price range have hub-motors, which makes trailer attachment a bit more complicated. Also, you need a low speed one that you don't see in OEM bikes and standard kits, so you have to buy them from China.

Please show your bike so we can check compatibility if you want to go the conversion route.

 

[SkyMonkey]

Hi @Ds_77 and welcome to Pedelecs.

I have felt your pain because I too live in Sheffield!
After a year of commuting to work (the RHH) by car, then and having to park in the outlying suburbs and walk the last bit anyway, I decided to convert one of my old, dust gathering bikes to a pedelec.
I couldn't justify buying yet another new bike when I already had several in the cellar, so conversion seemed the way to go, especially as one was spec'd perfectly as a commuting/tourer already.
Getting similar spec on a new e-bike would have cost £3000+.
It sounds as though you may have a suitable donor bike already when you talk about what you need/already have for your nursery run.

The main thing that put me off initially was the skills and tools needed for a DIY conversion.
There was no-one locally who could or would do the installation for me in Sheffield.
The bike shops here (J.E. James, etc.) are all geared up for selling you complete e-bikes, and wouldn't touch a 'sale-stealing' conversion with a poo-ey stick!

So, having built a few bikes from the frame up previously, I had a go myself.
The one bit of kit that made my home conversion reasonably pain free was a workshop stand.
But there are YT vids of folk converting bikes in the spare bedroom without one.
A couple of extra sockets and a torque wrench later and I have installed the kit myself (and learned a few things along the way).

I decided on a Bafang 48v 250W BBS01B mid-drive kit bought from an online seller called Varstrom.
The display unit I went for is the compact 500C.
This kit is a UK road legal kit, so long as you set the display speed limits at 15.5 mph max.
It cost me ~£650 with a 48v 20Ah Hailong (Shark) battery included.
One of the main advantages of a mid-drive conversion is that the bikes rear gears help the motor on the steep bits in the same way they help a person without a motor.
And 250W at full speed/assist is enough to get me (75kg), and the bike (now 22kg) up any Sheffield hills I tried so far, with ease.
I am confident it will be a great bike for loaded pannier touring in the Peak (maybe starting next spring though).
I predict a 20Ah battery would easily last you a week between charges with the commute you describe.

So, if your bike has a metal frame, decent sized triangle (to fit a battery), or can take a rack mounted battery, you have some bike repair skills and tools, take a look at an installation video on YT and decide if you can tackle it yourself.

I like JohnnyNerdout for conversion guides.
He has an honest 'warts and all' approach to making vids. A bit amateurish at times, but sometimes fun too.
Watch this one. Build vids are a bit 'dry' to watch, but you will soon see if you think you can do it yourself.

A note on Varstrom.
I won't say I recommend them either way, they are just the company I decided to go with after some Google research.
But they are the only company I have any experience with so far.
They are based in Hong Kong, but have distribution centres in Europe, including the UK.
I received my complete shipment in about 2-3 working days.
After sales were all conducted by email, and although slow at times and sometimes lost in translation, they never stopped helping me with one of the items I had to swap/return, until the process was complete.
Everything in the kit was as it should be and worked first time, and I am a happy shopper.

BAFANG 48V M215 BBS01B MM G340.250.C for eCity eTour eRoad Conversion

Varstrom provides professional electric assist bicycle solutions, we are one of BAFANG's largest partners in the past 5 years, we sell BAFANG motors, and provide other accessories needed to the eBike conversion, such as batteries, displays, ebrake levers and all the required kits. Varstrom helps...

varstrom.com

 

[Ds_77]

@saneagle until recently I swapped between a hybrid (giant escape I think) and a mountain bike (specialized rock hopper elite 29 2021). Unfortunately I managed to snap the frame of my hybrid a couple of months ago so now it’s just the specialized.

@SkyMonkey that’s a lot of info…nice one! I’ll need to sit down later after work and go through that. I’ve been travelling from Jordanthorpe to close to the hospital (behind the Francis Newton) and within the next month it’ll change to heading to Whitely Woods (common lane). Keeps me fit at least!

I’ve always gone to Butterworths on Abbeydale Road but no idea if they mess with electric bikes…

anyway, I’ll have a proper read later. Cheers!

 

[Peter.Bridge]

@saneagle until recently I swapped between a hybrid (giant escape I think) and a mountain bike (specialized rock hopper elite 29 2021). Unfortunately I managed to snap the frame of my hybrid a couple of months ago so now it’s just the specialized.

@SkyMonkey that’s a lot of info…nice one! I’ll need to sit down later after work and go through that. I’ve been travelling from Jordanthorpe to close to the hospital (behind the Francis Newton) and within the next month it’ll change to heading to Whitely Woods (common lane). Keeps me fit at least!

I’ve always gone to Butterworths on Abbeydale Road but no idea if they mess with electric bikes…

anyway, I’ll have a proper read later. Cheers!

One tricky bit might be the mid motor / chainwheel will hit the flared chainstay - that smallish gear looks like it doesn't have too much clearance - would you consider an older (facebook marketplace !) bike as the donor ? Doesn't need to be anything too fancy, just have room on the downtube for the battery, disc brakes and preferably a square taper bottom bracket



ETA Just had quick look on Facebook, Sheffield, would need some more checking but something like this

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[Ds_77]

@Peter.Bridge

that’s an interesting point and I’m super grateful for all this knowledge being imparted! I’m not precious so would easily consider such a donor. I will add that thought to my investigations. Thank you

 

[saneagle]

@saneagle until recently I swapped between a hybrid (giant escape I think) and a mountain bike (specialized rock hopper elite 29 2021). Unfortunately I managed to snap the frame of my hybrid a couple of months ago so now it’s just the specialized.

@SkyMonkey that’s a lot of info…nice one! I’ll need to sit down later after work and go through that. I’ve been travelling from Jordanthorpe to close to the hospital (behind the Francis Newton) and within the next month it’ll change to heading to Whitely Woods (common lane). Keeps me fit at least!

I’ve always gone to Butterworths on Abbeydale Road but no idea if they mess with electric bikes…

anyway, I’ll have a proper read later. Cheers!

Rockhopper is a very easy bike to convert unless it's one of the modern ones with stupid tiny chainwheels. I've done a couple myself.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Rockhopper is a very easy bike to convert unless it's one of the modern ones with stupid tiny chainwheels. I've done a couple myself.

the rock hopper elite 29 2021 looked like it had quite flared chainstays and not too much room for motor / bigger chainring ?

2021 Specialized Rockhopper Elite 29 Hardtail Mountain Bike - Redwood

The much-loved hardtail MTB has been revamped for fun urban and off-road adventures with great value added performance, designed for every rider.

www.certini.co.uk

 

[Ds_77]

I tried uploading a photo but it failed. They do look quite flared. I’ll try again with a photo.

 

[saneagle]

I tried uploading a photo but it failed. They do look quite flared. I’ll try again with a photo.

If you do a Google search, you can find examples converted with a BBS02 (illegal in UK), which is the same size as a BBS01, which is legal, but a bit low on power. Anything above 90kg (rider and load) really needs 48v. Also, some mention changes to gearing. To be honest, it's probably a little bit complicated for a first conversion. It would be better to get a used cheapo catalogue bike for £100 as a donor. Just make sure that it has disc brakes and a triangle frame. 26" wheels would be better too for more torque than 29 or 27.5. When you have a motor, you don't need fancy gears and stuff like that.

An OEM bike to do what you want would cost around £1500 or more plus the servicing costs. There are no servicing costs when you do a conversion, other than replacing worn parts, and you'll see the difference when you need a new battery in 4 years time. An OEM one is about £300 more expensive. None of that is a problem if you have money. If you ho that route, anything with a Bosch or Yamaha system would be my choice.

 

[Az.]

Another option is cargo e-bike. Something like that:

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Take part in the Engwe LE20 Early Bird Offer - Register to receive an extra £50 off and a chance to win a new Engwe LE20 electric cargo bicycle!

engwe-bikes-uk.com

This is what I would be looking for if I were you. Unfortunately cargo frames are hard to find on second hand market and they are not on cheap side.

 

[Ds_77]

@Az. Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, for fairly unexplainable reasons, I don’t like the look of those types of bikes. Maybe a foolish way to approach this, but it is what it is

 

[Az.]

I don’t like the look of those types of bikes.

Neither do I, but it is more about functionality than style. I also don't like the look of my MPV, but once you are a dad ,you must rethink your priorities

If you don't like cargo bikes then conversion is a good way to move forward.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

26" wheels would be better too for more torque than 29 or 27.5.

I think 26" wheels have become unfashionable, but there's lots of well maintained, 10-15 year old top spec 26" hardtails and full suspension bikes very cheap that are often good donor bikes

£3,000 bikes , they can't give away !

https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/mountain-bikes/scott-genius-mc40-review

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[Waspy]