Help! new Swytch kit on folding bike....wrong dimensions for wheel axle?

[warpdrive]

Hi, I'm new to conversion kits. Hence, I decided to go with the Swytch kit as it was recommended as the easiest install.

I received my kit Dec 2023, and am finally getting around to install it now. I ordered the kit for a 20" (406) wheel thinking it would fit my new Momentum Pakaway 1. Well, after I received it, I realized that it won't work because my front fork spacing is 100 mm. The wheel they supplied was meant for narrow forks of 75mm

So onto plan B.

I have a old Dahon Mu P8 from 1997 or so. Great, it has narrow fork spacing so I can make it work. I test fitted the wheel. It doesn't seem right.

My Dahon has dropout spacing of 10mm, but looking at the axle of the wheel and the torque washer they sent me.

The axle of the motor is 10mm with 8mm flat which leaves a gap on either side of the flat part (see picture)
The torque washer is clearly too big (see picture)

Is it normal for Swytch to send a wheel like this for folding bikes?

This does not seem safe? My Dahon has aluminum forks

I am in Canada so dealing with shipping things back to UK will be very expensive and not cost effective. I find their email responses slow, and I thought I would try this forum for help to see if I can salvage my purchase


fork dropout is 10mm wide


can see how the flat part has a gap, because it's 8mm


torque washer looks way too big

thanks!

 

[saneagle]

Normally, those motor have 10mm round axles. The flats are on the inner part that fits into the drop-outs, where there's an anti-rotation tab. I think Swytch must have had the 8mm flats specially added to the axle to suit their own outer anti-rotation devices or torque arms, and they've provided you with the wrong ones.

That motor is different to previous motors they supplied, which had normal 12mm axles with 10mm flats for which those tab washers would have worked.

In summarry, they changed the motor and adapted it for new tab washers, but they sent you the tab washers for the old motor. Either that or they're stupid and didn't properly think through the change.

The Swytch system is not very powerful, so you don't need that tab washer. It should be OK if you just make sure that the axle nuts are tight.

I can't understand why they'd want to put 8mm flats on the axle because all that does is weaken the threads. You need to ask them what's going on.

 

[Nealh]

Swytch are a pretty useless company to deal with within the UK , let alone Canada . Thye have sent you 12 x 10 torque washers as there aren't any 10 x 8's that I know of, for 10 x 8 one will have to fabricate or get some one to a make a pair up.

 

[Nealh]

As an aside I have a Bafang G370 front hub with a 10mm dia axle , only the inner part of the axle has a drop out flat and one can't fit torque arms but can fit one torque washer on the LHS without the cable entry.
I simply make sure the axle sits in the lawyer slips of the drop out and tighten the nuts tightly, not had an issue with the wheel fitting and the 22a controller with reduced current supply.

 

[warpdrive]

Normally, those motor have 10mm round axles. The flats are on the inner part that fits into the drop-outs, where there's an anti-rotation tab. I think Swytch must have had the 8mm flats specially added to the axle to suit their own outer anti-rotation devices or torque arms, and they've provided you with the wrong ones.

That motor is different to previous motors they supplied, which had normal 12mm axles with 10mm flats for which those tab washers would have worked.

In summarry, they changed the motor and adapted it for new tab washers, but they sent you the tab washers for the old motor. Either that or they're stupid and didn't properly think through the change.

The Swytch system is not very powerful, so you don't need that tab washer. It should be OK if you just make sure that the axle nuts are tight.

I can't understand why they'd want to put 8mm flats on the axle because all that does is weaken the threads. You need to ask them what's going on.

It seems to me that this motor was developed for their Brompton kit, but they are deploying it as the standard motor for all folding bike Swytch kits. I guess they never encountered customers like me who own folding bicycles with standard width fork spacing because the ordering process never let me to specify what kind of fork spacing my bike has

I was looking at the washers offered on ebike.ca, and they sell a 8x10 washer for bromptons that I think would work..
Link: 8mm Torque Arm Plates for Brompton Motors (ebikes.ca)

So you think that I will be ok just using it as is (leaving out the tabbed washer)? I was really worried I'd break the fork.

 

[warpdrive]

update: I contacted Swytch and I should have received a washer with two tabs that fills in the spacing for my 10mm dropout with the 8mm flats. So this will suffice to help to make sure the axle is a tight fit.

 

[saneagle]

It seems to me that this motor was developed for their Brompton kit, but they are deploying it as the standard motor for all folding bike Swytch kits. I guess they never encountered customers like me who own folding bicycles with standard width fork spacing because the ordering process never let me to specify what kind of fork spacing my bike has

I was looking at the washers offered on ebike.ca, and they sell a 8x10 washer for bromptons that I think would work..
Link: 8mm Torque Arm Plates for Brompton Motors (ebikes.ca)

So you think that I will be ok just using it as is (leaving out the tabbed washer)? I was really worried I'd break the fork.

A Bromton is no different to any other bike. It has a standard 9mm or 10mm axle. The adatation is for the motor, not the bike. The problem is that you can't use the normal tab washers or torque arms on it. Previously the motor axle was 10mm round except for the part that goes in the drop-out. Maybe they had too many slipping in the forks, so they've modified it with the 8mm flats and added the new torque washers.

 

[warpdrive]

A Bromton is no different to any other bike. It has a standard 9mm or 10mm axle. The adatation is for the motor, not the bike. The problem is that you can't use the normal tab washers or torque arms on it. Previously the motor axle was 10mm round except for the part that goes in the drop-out. Maybe they had too many slipping in the forks, so they've modified it with the 8mm flats and added the new torque washers.

Yes, I looked at the Brompton torque washer, and they really should have supplied something like that if they are insisting on supplying motors with 8/10mm axles for their folding bike configuration of 9 and 10mm dropouts.

I may be looking for a second kit but now knowing more about how they operate (rebranding bafang components), I don't really see a reason to go with them next time. The whole ordering process is what gives me a bad taste. I can't just order the parts that I need and easily configure my order.

What do people recommend as an alternative to Swytch. The Geeko rear hub setup looks as simple as Swytch to install for example.

 

[warpdrive]

I guess it wouldn’t hurt to order a set of Brompton washers?

here’s the brompton fork

 

[Nealh]

For 100mm forks spacing/drop outs then the Bafang G370 is ideal but would need steel forks , it isn't a cheap hub but is very well engineered and my one has given no issue in my Roadrat build. The G370 has a 10mm dia axle and the axle flats are only on the inbound side of the axles so align with drop outs perfectly.

Alternatively Aikiema have a selection of small front hubs.

 

[Nealh]

The brompton washers may fit a brommy fork but other forks may not have the drop out depth for the tab to sit in , so one would have to deepen them to accept the tab. Without seeing any said fork one may have to remove 4 or 5mm of material for the washer tab to sit in as the tab washers look very long.