New Online E-bike Magazine
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
not sure i like the sound of this..
"In a second presentation, Bram Rotthier of the Belgian University of Leuven, explained his findings on the requirement of factor 4 for speed pedelecs. Sometime soon the European Commission will be reviewing this requirement, which stipulates that the power of speed pedelecs should be no more than 4 times the power, which the cyclist puts into the bike him/herself. In anticipation of the Commission’s review and for his PhD-thesis at KU Leuven, Bram Rotthier has done scientific research into factor 4. "
http://onlinemagazine.bike-eu.com/nr1#!/e-bike-rules-evoke-lots-of-questions
that`s the trouble with the EU, too many people hanging around with too much time on their hands, and then mischief ensues.
Yep!...faceless bureaucrats in Brussels telling us what to do, when to do it, and how much it will cost you!
Roll on March 29th!
"In a second presentation, Bram Rotthier of the Belgian University of Leuven, explained his findings on the requirement of factor 4 for speed pedelecs. Sometime soon the European Commission will be reviewing this requirement, which stipulates that the power of speed pedelecs should be no more than 4 times the power, which the cyclist puts into the bike him/herself. In anticipation of the Commission’s review and for his PhD-thesis at KU Leuven, Bram Rotthier has done scientific research into factor 4. "
http://onlinemagazine.bike-eu.com/nr1#!/e-bike-rules-evoke-lots-of-questions
that`s the trouble with the EU, too many people hanging around with too much time on their hands, and then mischief ensues.
Yep!...faceless bureaucrats in Brussels telling us what to do, when to do it, and how much it will cost you!
Roll on March 29th!
Thanks Flecc,
A quick read thru and noticed a few statements regarding cells from the BMZ CEO..
A quick read thru and noticed a few statements regarding cells from the BMZ CEO..
- Battery shortages coming according to EU's biggest cell manufacturer BMZ.
- Currently 10% of cells are used world wide for ebikes.
- Demand to rise to 30% in the future.
- As cell switch to 21700 format BMZ see 5200mah being the near future standard cell.
- Cell price will rise as demand will outstrip production.
- Increase in raw materials price such as copper and lithium.
I can't see that is a problem. The law permits a maximum of 500 watt rating for S pedelecs but manufacturers have settled on 350 watts rating since that's the public's popular choice for optimum performance/range. With a 350 watt rating making about 700 watts peak possible, a cyclist will only need to put in 175 watts to achieve that, comfortably within the 200 watts an average person can output for hours rather than the minutes needed to get peak powers.
Like the pedelec regulations, it ties human physical capability and therefore overall fitness to available assist power and performance. That's a good thing.
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That might not be the worry it looks like in the surface. It's not just BMW using very different cells, Nissan and Renault have always done so on their e-cars, making their own batteries.
And they are easily keeping up too, the original Leaf car battery was 24 kWh and without getting physically bigger is now up to 40 kWh after two increases.
Next year's model is to have 63 kWh.
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Car makers kicked off modern e-bikes.
Back in the early 1970s when the Arab oil crisis frightened the West, General Motors and Chrysler started research into alternative transports.
GM's man Dr Edwin Currie left them with his bicycle motor add on design and launched the Currie Electrodrive motor.
Meanwhile Chrysler laid the foundations for the BionX motor which went through many hands before reaching the market.
.
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
Seems a bit high to me, Flecc. I would say than an average ebiker (guys on this forum) would be in the range 60 to 100 watts and maybe 200w for a very short time to climb a steep hill.
I was speaking of an average fitness man, said to be capable of 200 watts for a couple of hours and 300 watts for ten minutes. A few e-bikers may be well below that capability, but I don't think most are too far off the common levels of fitness.
But what you quote for climbing a steep hill is fine if the 175 watts in the proposed regulation allows maximum 700 watts power from the motor for the few minutes of a steep climb.
A total of 875 watts should be enough, and probably not necessary for many climbs.
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Factor 4 has been round for donkeys years and will work the same way as nominative Watts work now - the controllers will be rated for 350W i.e. 90W x 4 and have a "boost" or "turbo" level which will give 700W. 90W is very probable effort from most "normal" riders, boffins in white coats will put retired Dutch men on lab bikes to get their output over an hour. Then those old men will jump on an s-pedelec and ride off to be killed on roads in the Netherlands... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/25/older-men-using-e-bikes-behind-rising-death-toll-among-dutch-cyclists
When was the last time you saw a 9.72A controller on the market? Some say 14 plus or minus 1 Amp and others say 15 plus or minus... On the flat any 250W rated mid-drive motor is able to give the legal s-pedelec top speed, a BBS01 even more capable than most at 18 Amps.
When was the last time you saw a 9.72A controller on the market? Some say 14 plus or minus 1 Amp and others say 15 plus or minus... On the flat any 250W rated mid-drive motor is able to give the legal s-pedelec top speed, a BBS01 even more capable than most at 18 Amps.
lol, cos your local politicians are doing such a good job of sorting out the eBike rules aren't they.
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
This is more discrimination against fat people. I guy that weighs 120 kg needs twice as much power as a 60kg one when it comes to hill-climbing. One could argue that they can stand on the pedals with a force proportional to their body weight, but they'd have to be fit to keep that up, and one could assume that the average 120kg guy is not likely to be that fit.
Well hopefully after March 29th everything surrounding ebikes will be sorted out to the benefit of UK residents, including the cheap chinese tat thats imported, assembled and then sold off as `Made in Germany` by unscrupulous Dealers!
wouldn`t you agree?!
We don't need it sorting, we just operate lawlessly:
From 1999 to 2015 with power in excess of the law on most pedelecs.
From 1983 to the present with e-bikes often, even usually, unplated according to the law.
From 2003 to 2016 with illegal independent acting throttles.
From 2016 many introducing illegal throttles on new e-bikes without EAPC type approval or registration as an L1e-A moped.
Throughout e-bike history many riding with grossly illegal power ratings.
From circa 2006 many riding illegal S class e-bikes.
But we are kind to animals and give to charity, so that's all right then.
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Actually no... don't agree with any of that. I'm not aware of any dealers in Germany, unscrupulous or otherwise who import chinese tat. There are very strong EU rules protecting the "Made in Germany" tag. Just like it protects the Made in Austria that KTM can use.
I actually learnt last month whilst over in Germany, when I asked why the factory next to the one I was in had "MADE IN GERMANY" in massive letters on the side, in English. I asked why it wasn't "Hergestellt in Deutschland" why it is in English. I was informed with a smile that it was the English that did it. They made things have the Made in Germany tag in the past, because we arrogant Brits considered it a negative, so it would help us sell our things preferentially... how wrong that move was hey.
I checked... and its correct.
http://www.dw.com/en/125-years-of-made-in-germany/a-16188583
I like this last line:
"The greatest benefit for all comes when trading partners concentrate on their own core strengths."
Can the UK find a market for ignorance?
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I thought that was we were aiming for by trying to get stronger links with the US?
The Act insisted all manufactured goods were labelled with their country of origin, not just German goods.
You may wish to swallow the opinion of a German website the Act was 'aimed' at Germany because it fits your 'knock, knock, knock' agenda.
As an importer of manufactured goods you are also fearful of Brexit because, selfishly, it may impact adversely on your business.
Nothing wrong with that, we are all selfish.
But everyone should be aware your posts are nothing more than axe grinding and should be viewed as such.
Yes, but it was a British Act... which was my point. I wasn't really saying it was aimed at specifically at Germany was I? I was simply repeated what I was told by a German factory that the "Made in Germany" tag came about because of the British, and the Germans are now very happy about that, more so than the British I suspect.
Personally I'm not a fan of nationalism of any sort, it never ends well. There is no need to be proud of a fluke of geography. But that's another subject.
Brexit won't impact our sales I don't think, it'll just impact the prices people pay for our goods. Sales growth will continue I'm sure or will stay the same and if anything bearing in mind out margin is based on margin, if prices go up, or income goes up.
My problems with Brexit aren't really related to our business.
But yes, my agenda is anti brexit, and pro EU, I don't think anyone could accuse me of hiding that.
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