New old member advice please

[mikescave]

Hi,
I've been a member since 2007 but not been active for a while.
Since then I've sold my Ezee Sprint (my second one) in 2019 and aged?
Now 77 I've also moved to a new area and find I need another ebike because I've missed having one so much. So I would appreciate some advice about what to buy.
I am not sure if I should now buy something with a hub motor so that I get maximum help on hills, but I am not sure how much better these would be than my old Ezee Sprint which could cope with most hills and was so powerful that it could climb most in pedelec mode. Hence I have looked at both crank driven bikes and hub driven ones. You will see there is quite a price variation but only because it appears at first sight that a crank driven bike may be better for me now - unless your advice is different.
Please send me you collective thoughts.

My choices at the moment are some thing like
1. an Amper de luxe step thru 250 w which is rear hub driven (unlike my Sprint which was fron hub driven)
2. A Raleigh Motus low step Grand tour
3. A Haibike trekking 6 mid
or a Haibike trekking 4 low

Pleased to be back!
Mike

 

[sjpt]

I am not sure if I should now buy something with a hub motor so that I get maximum help on hills,

You'll get the most help on hills with a crank drive, but hub drive should be fine.

A torque sensing bike is more natural, but very few have an arrangement so it can do all the work if you get tired near the end of a ride. With a cadence sensor bike as long as you can keep the pedals turning (with no effort) it will do all the work for you. Most crank drive bikes are torque sensing and most hub drive bikes are cadence sensing, but there are plenty of exceptions.

(I think Wisper may have a torque sensor bike with throttle?)

I can recommend the Motus; we have a 6 year old step through Motus hub gear (bought 2nd hand 4 years ago) that has done us very well.

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?santana3 would probably do you fine and be quite a lot cheaper. Also much cheaper and easier to fix if anything does go wrong. Probably similar to the Ampere though I haven't checked details, I think the Woosh is a bit cheaper with equivalent battery size. If we had to replace the Motus for any reason I think that is probably what we'd go for. We have got used to the convenience of the hub gears on the Motus though.

Woosh have a very good reputation for customer service, and for value.

 

[mikescave]

Thank you so much. That leads me on a bit. because I would want to fit a twist throttle i I go with another hub drive. But just one thought; when I looked at the ampere they offered a thumb throttle which I'm not so sure about - twist not being an option. Any thoughts on these because I not familiar with them though if any good I could consider.
regards Mike

 

[sjpt]

We've got a thumb throttle on our tandem (Woosh conversion) which we hardly ever use. The tandem has front and back changers, which makes throttle placement more awkward; and might even rule out twist throttle. It's mounted on the right and I can't oppose my right thumb, so that makes it yet more awkward.

I think that even it it were really convenient to my left thumb I wouldn't want to keep in engaged for any length of time.

You could probably change the thumb for a twist on the Ampere. The Santana comes with twist throttle.

Also look at https://wisperbikes.com/shop/e-bikes/step-through-ebikes/wisper-705-26/

Throttle laws are confusing, the Wisper with throttle is extra expensive (£200 extra for the throttle option) because they go through all the hoops to ensure the throttle is definitely legal for full assist with no pedalling up to 15.5mph.

p.s. Just thought that for us I might be able to mount the thumb throttle so my wife controlled it ... then I'd only have to be able to control her.

 

[Benjahmin]

Hi Mike,
After the Ezee and at your age I would think that any torque sensing system would feel like hard work. As sjpt says, a cadence sensor machine can be ghost pedalled if needed.
I would avoid systems like the Bosch crank drives. With these you are locked into their expensive parts and dealer network only. Many have reported that only the dealer that the bike is bought from will touch it and, if it needs motor/gearbox parts or service they can only remove it and send back to Bosch. Their replacement batteries ore very expensive.
Most hub bikes are generic parts that can be user bought and replaced if needed. A lot of throttles these days are only active up to 5kph. Some will act to full speed if the pedals are rotated. Some will allow user retro fitting of a full acting throttle. It's a mess!

A conversion kit is a good route. I would say front hub is the easiest (you already appreciate their sometimes tricksy handling) with rear hub a little more taxing. (There may be wheel dishing issues to get the wheel central and chain line running right).
Woosh is a great place to start for kits or bikes. Lots of help on the forum from them.
Wisper offer slightly more expensive bikes with nice styling and great customer service.
Juicy, whilst not seen on here for a while, also seem to be nice bikes and were active with their servic in the past.

Some will try to tell you that hubs in general and front hubs in particular cannot climb hills.
As the owner of a front hub Ezee mark 2 conversion, living in west Wales, I can tell you that this ain't so

 

[mikescave]

Hi Benjahmin,
Thanks for your informed thoughts which I very much appreciate. It's difficult to get non-partisan advice about the different systems which is why I've come back to Pedelecs which I've found so good in the past.

So this means you are bringing me back to a hub motor with cadence drive which makes sense. And with this in mind I could convert my regular Dawes Trekker but due to my age I would
a) like a step through (like my last Sprint) b) a twist throttle ditto and c) and ideally a front hub drive (but I don't see these )
so how do you think all this stacks up?
Are rear hub drives are as good on hills? And can you suggest any make model that I can retro fit a twist throttle to - (don't know anything about thumb throttles but I'm suspicious they won't be as good)
Any more thoughts or ideas much appreciated.
regards
Mike

 

[Nealh]

The ezee electronics were pretty good and had more powerful hubs and I think 25 or 30a controllers so they had some high torque. Any hub one buys today one may not feel the same effect as the ezee.
Ebikes today are a minefield and the choice is far greater then the days of the ezee bikes, recommending any particular one is not easy.

 

[sjpt]

Are rear hub drives are as good on hills?

From the point of view of power front and rear will be the same. There is more risk of a front hub drive slipping on loose gravel or whatever, and steering is probably a bit better with rear hub.

Front hub drive does mean you have two separate power sources to the two wheels. We've sometimes found that handy on our tandem; but the weight distribution is different.

 

[Jodel]

To add a further layer of clarification / confusion to the use of a throttle. The two types I have come across are the 'lever' type and the 'thumb' type. I use both types fitted on the right hand side of the handlebars.

The thumb type is fitted to my solo bike and I find it more difficult to modulate the power and more awkward to reach / use.



The lever type I have on my tandem and it is far easier to reach / operate and is less sensitive.

 

[mikescave]

Thanks for that. It seems that most Ive looked at offer a thumb throttle which looks harder to operate as you say. Do these opearate progressively? And how do they work with different power settings that some bikes have? Regards Mike

 

[Jodel]

The lever type is a far better option in my view. They are both progressive in operation, but controlling the power is much easier with the lever type. They operate regardless of power-level settings on the LCD display and provide the full range of power available from the motor.

That facility can be really useful when it is tricky to pedal, but you need a gentle trickle of power when winding round obstacles at low speed, to calling on full-bore acceleration across traffic lights etc. Due to the additional weight, I find a throttle more useful on the tandem than on the solo bike.

 

[sjpt]

I hadn't seen the lever type before. Looking at it (but without trying) I think I'd still opt for a twist type where feasible.

 

[Benjahmin]

I've linked to Woosh bikes geared hub kit page. Loads of info here, probably more than you want.
Have a look at the BPM front and rear hubs. These are large (4.5kg) torquey motors. The front was what they used to fit to their Big Bear model (which my wife has) and are prodigious hill climbers. The Big Bear is fitted with a twist throttle so Woosh are likely to have them. They are labelled 350w so technically illegal. However there are ways to relabel and anyway the chances of this being picked up are slim to vanishing - fatal accidents excepted.
Find yourself a step through and fit away, it's fun and you end up with a bike system you know inside out.

Woosh hub kits | Electric Bike Conversion Kits from Woosh

Woosh range of hub kits with choice of front or rear hub motors. Convert your bike into an electric bike.

wooshbikes.co.uk

The BPM's are similar size and power to the old Ezee motors. Linked to a 17A controller and battery capable of delivering it, you''ll get a hill climber that embarrases sports cyclists.

 

[sjpt]

The current front wheel Woosh BPMs are marked 250w (at least, last time I looked)

 

[Tim@Wisper]

We've got a thumb throttle on our tandem (Woosh conversion) which we hardly ever use. The tandem has front and back changers, which makes throttle placement more awkward; and might even rule out twist throttle. It's mounted on the right and I can't oppose my right thumb, so that makes it yet more awkward.

I think that even it it were really convenient to my left thumb I wouldn't want to keep in engaged for any length of time.

You could probably change the thumb for a twist on the Ampere. The Santana comes with twist throttle.

Also look at https://wisperbikes.com/shop/e-bikes/step-through-ebikes/wisper-705-26/

Throttle laws are confusing, the Wisper with throttle is extra expensive (£200 extra for the throttle option) because they go through all the hoops to ensure the throttle is definitely legal for full assist with no pedalling up to 15.5mph.

p.s. Just thought that for us I might be able to mount the thumb throttle so my wife controlled it ... then I'd only have to be able to control her.

Hello,
We do also offer all our bikes at the standard price with a throttle that will take you to 15.5mpg as long as you are turning the pedals.
I hope this helps
All the best

 

[mikescave]

Hello,
We do also offer all our bikes at the standard price with a throttle that will take you to 15.5mpg as long as you are turning the pedals.
I hope this helps
All the best

Hi Tim that sounds just right for me. Does a throttle still work with the Wayfarer M7 mid drive step through
Regards Mike

 

[Tim@Wisper]

Hello,
I will have to check if it works with the Mid Drive. I know it works with the hub drive and would recommend a test ride of this bike as the hub motors we use are very powerful.
All the best

 

[Benjahmin]

Mike, my advice would be to go for the hub version as the mid drives are Bosch and, Wispers excellent customer service notwithstanding, you would be locked into a very expensive system that does not allow any replacements (on the electrical system) beyond what Bosch provide.
A hub motor, in the unlikely event that it failed, could be user replaced with the same or similar generic motor.

 

[mikescave]

Benjahmin, I've come round to that way of thinking and am presently inclined to get another Ezee Sprint since I've found a new supplier - not cheap but only a bit more than a kit. I know this make is a reliable/proven, powerful and adaptable. Thanks so much for yours and all the other member's thoughts so far.