New Name for Forum

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Many of the arguments against dongles seem to be in relation to off-road use, where the implication is that they'll be churning up the bridleways and injuring innocent dog-walkers. Really?

.

Thats a very ignorant assessment of the actual issue, and I'd expect more of you

no ones arguing they are doing more damage, they only put out the power of a very powerful rider. The issue is simply.

THEY CAN'T LEGALLY BE USED THERE.

So, if there is an accident or any kind of issue involving one of these illegal bikes, the rider and landowner won't be insured or covered.

The risk of this is something landowners are aware of, so there are 2 options.

1) they carry on letting eBikes ride on their land and simply hope their isn't an accident.

or

2) they ban all eBikes because they can't tell unless they ride them which ones are legal or not.

So we're simply asking the industry to help self police this and make sure offroad eBike customers realise that their actions have the potential to have a negative impact on them personally, but also the access right and enjoyment of everyone,.

 

[rippedupno1]

I expect that an average club cyclist on a road bike would be able to beat most of us on a dongled Bosch bike in a race along flattish roads. I know I've been beaten often enough by them when I rode my bike unrestricted.

Since I took the Mosso (29er BBS02) into the lbs for an upgraded chain and rear sprockets at the end of last summer I have got friendly with members of the local race club (lbs is a speciality race bike shop) and go out with them most weekends on their training runs and act as a pacemaker/windbreak.What is truly amazing is just how fast these lads are.The mosso gearing/my knees run out at about 31 mph and these lads on the flat come past me like I am going backwards and lets not even mention downhill,it is a sight to behold.what I have found interesting riding with these human powered riders is just how much they are having to move about on the road to avoid potholes/ruts, stuff that I just take in my stride with my front suspension and big tyres and lets not even go into how much faster I can stop with my hydraulic disc brakes, yes we have done tests from 15/20 and 30 mph and it isn't even close.
Two weeks ago I took part in a local training time trial over a popular route between two islands on the dual carriageway,8 miles,not much elevation change maybe 150 ft, I barely made the top 20!the guy that had the quickest time averaged, yes averaged 32.9 mph (tt bike /full aero clothing) I used level 9 (max) no throttle and averaged just over 27mph ,I could probably got closer if I had used full throttle all the way bearing in mind that my BBS02 is set up for 60% of max power in pedelec mode and only when throttle is used do I get 100% of the power.
I am in no way trying to justify that my bike is in any way legal ,it isn't, I only mention the above to put in perspective ,from first hand experience, the speeds that some totally legal human powered bikes go on our potholed roads on machines that have vastly inferior brakes and no suspension .
ps I only ride on the road ,no cycle paths or off road.

 

[trex]

Col, you keep shouting into their ears and treat them like idiotic lawbreakers, what will that do?

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Col, you keep shouting into their ears and treat them like idiotic lawbreakers, what will that do?

Cant speak for KTM but my feeling was Forum and its members should stop appearing to condone many " illegal" aspects, even if they carry on doing so as individuals.

Whilst out last week bumped into 3 young lads on demo emtb.
One asked me how fast mine goes..
I explained power cut at 15 mph so in effect no faster. They all giggled slightly, looked at me as tho daft and asked why I had not " chipped" it. ( Their word)
????
Our nanny state will not let it carry on..might for a while. A few kids hurt and even if "dongle" not responsible it will be blamed.
Our society has to find blame for everything, the things wrong side of law are easiest target..
Yep, I agree , might never happen, but what's problem with us taking safest stance. Ie..appearing to be against anything illegal..even if as individuals we are not.???

 

[Artstu]

Our nanny state will not let it carry on..might for a while. A few kids hurt and even if "dongle" not responsible it will be blamed.
Our society has to find blame for everything, the things wrong side of law are easiest target..

and you don't think that all the bloody fuss you keep stirring up might just be part of the nanny state, shut up and give it rest, you've gone way way beyond boring now.
I'll stick you back on the ignore list.

 

[trex]

flud, I think posting directly in those threads - where you feel they promote illegal use or illegal bikes, is more acceptable to everyone concerned.

 

[Fordulike]

All this talk about how dangerous powerful bikes are for acceleration and speed. How about how dangerous bikes can be when coupled with powerful brakes and an incompetent rider.

I have witnessed at total of three riders over the past few years, who have come a cropper when using hydraulic brakes. Two slid the front wheel from under them and hit the deck. The other actually flew over his handlebars, and I thought the poor sod had broken his neck, the way he hit the ground.
I offered to call him an ambulance to get checked out, which he declined. His mates just laughed it off and carried on without him.

Power and incompetence can be a dangerous thing in the wrong hands.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

and you don't think that all the bloody fuss you keep stirring up might just be part of the nanny state, shut up and give it rest, you've gone way way beyond boring now.
I'll stick you back on the ignore list.

The only reason I carried on posting was to try and demonstrate folk involved throughout could post without this type of reply. You have failed to make a positivecintribution one side or the other throughout.
And you tthink sticking me on your ignore list is a problem . I actually contacted Morphix after your last disgraceful post to say you were a decent type. I should not have bothered. I was wrong. You are not. For what its worth I,ve now reported both posts to mods.
Good bye.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

flud, I think posting directly in those threads - where you feel they promote illegal use or illegal bikes, is more acceptable to everyone concerned.

Not sure what you mean with this?

Perhaps a message for Artstu and his disgraceful posts might help ?

 

[soundwave]

do you think bike radar would ban my vids if i posted on there?

 

[trex]

Not sure what you mean with this?

Perhaps a message for Artstu and his disgraceful posts might help ?

I usually prefer technical threads. live and let live, campaigning is not in my DNA. However, I do find it more and more irritating newbies who come here and ask 'how can I derestrict my XYZ?'
In the same token, I hate adverts for '1000W kits' and I find Col's obsession with e-mtbs irksome. We discussed the subject to death many times. The real damage is done on shared paths, not where the terrain is rough or on main roads, there, the guys who ride derestricted bikes are more likely to hurt themselves than anybody else.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

I usually prefer technical threads. live and let live, campaigning is not in my DNA. However, I do find it more and more irritating newbies who come here and ask 'how can I derestrict my XYZ?'
In the same token, I hate adverts for '1000W kits' and I find Col's obsession with e-mtbs irksome. We discussed the subject to death many times. The real damage is done on shared paths, not where the terrain is rough or on main roads, there, the guys who ride derestricted bikes are more likely to hurt themselves than anybody else.

Afraid I share his obsession !!
Fair comments though , we have more in common than appears.
It seems I have a talent for bringing out worst in.people on here.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Thats a very ignorant assessment of the actual issue, and I'd expect more of you

no ones arguing they are doing more damage, they only put out the power of a very powerful rider. The issue is simply.

THEY CAN'T LEGALLY BE USED THERE.

I'm not being ignorant and I don't know what more you expect from me. I'm trying to be practical. The industry can do nothing about them. If people want them and they can't get them from main dealers, they'll get them from somewhere else. If they can't dongle a bike at all, they'll get a different one, which can be dongled. Spreading hysteria throughout the industry won't make one iota of difference to that.

I neither condone them, nor do I promote their use. I have an opinion about them, though, and that is that they don't do anyone enough harm to worry about. If someone ran over a granny on a bike with one, nobody would know there was a dongle fitted, so any insurance would still pay. It's only when guys like you publicise the fact that anybody would know what they are. If you keep quiet, there's no problem whether it's right or wrong. There's a lot more important things in this world to get worked up about on than guys riding around on bikes with dongles fitted. When everything else in the world has been sorted, maybe it'll be time to revisit dongles.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I usually prefer technical threads. live and let live, campaigning is not in my DNA. However, I do find it more and more irritating newbies who come here and ask 'how can I derestrict my XYZ?'
In the same token, I hate adverts for '1000W kits' and I find Col's obsession with e-mtbs irksome. We discussed the subject to death many times. The real damage is done on shared paths, not where the terrain is rough or on main roads, there, the guys who ride derestricted bikes are more likely to hurt themselves than anybody else.

That's taken me by surprise considering your company has been selling BBS02 kits - for "off-road" use presumably!

 

[trex]

woosh only sell 36V version of the BBS02 limited to 25kph, not the fast 48V.
The motor is '500W capable', not '500W nominal'.
As far as I know, not even Bafang define the nominal power of their BBS02.

I am pushing for all kits to be supplied with certificate of conformity.
Derestricting is illegal, not the motor itself.

 

[JuicyBike]

That's taken me by surprise considering your company has been selling BBS02 kits - for "off-road" use presumably!

Dave, I love you to pieces! The whole basis for my objections to the postings about and the selling of high performance kit, either bikes or kits themselves, is that those less experienced, novices, kids, or just plain idiots, may be influenced enough to believe they can handle the power, when they can't.
The basis for the laws should be, and in the main is first to protect the whole public, not just upset the extreme riders or put barriers in the way of manufacturers.
Don't take it personally. I've every highest regard for your knowledge and enthusiasm. But I'd never let my daughter on the cross bar of your bike! Or let her ride any of many others mentioned on these forums.
But I wouldn't stop you having fun on your bike - I think you can handle it and you know the laws concerned. But please promise me you wouldn't encourage my daughter too. You've met her briefly and I hope you can tell how dear she is to me. And I value your friendship.

That's my speech done - nobody wants to hear me drone on, least of all me, on such a sunny day.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

How many Dave,s are there on here ??

 

[Deleted member 4366]

woosh only sell 36V version of the BBS02 limited to 25kph, not the fast 48V.
The motor is '500W capable', not '500W nominal'.
As far as I know, not even Bafang define the nominal power of their BBS02.

I am pushing for all kits to be supplied with certificate of conformity.
Derestricting is illegal, not the motor itself.

I'm not the judge and jury, Trex, but I think if this was put in front of them, I wouldn't want to be the defence lawyer:

woosh .....................They'll sell you BBS02 48V 500W with batttery.

 

[JuicyBike]

and his disgraceful posts

Please show some respect for fellow forum members and moderate your language.

 

[trex]

I'm not the judge and jury, Trex, but I think if this was put in front of them, I wouldn't want to be the defence lawyer:

they have obviously seen the light and stopped selling 48V kits more than a year ago.
that's growing up for you.