And also with some serious price tags I'm guessing!
I'll be sticking to the ebikes for now!
New Legal Speed Limit: What should it be?
- Thread starter e_kid
- Start date
I'll be sticking to the ebikes for now!
Its not the 15.5 mph that annoys me, its the way the motor cuts in and out(pulses) at that 15.5 mph (which seems to be my normal speed on the flat) so i cheat a bit(oh-er miss's) I set my max speed to 20 mph but ride at about 15/16 mph. I would prefer it if I could do this legally so that is why i voted for 20 mph.
The question shouldn't be what speed would you prefer.
The question should be, "Would you like your pedelec to be registered with number plate, insurance and be banned from cyclepaths, Sustrans routes and shared use paths, or would you like to leave things as they are?"
Because that is the real question, and the existence and history of the S class pedelecs proves it to be so.
.
The question should be, "Would you like your pedelec to be registered with number plate, insurance and be banned from cyclepaths, Sustrans routes and shared use paths, or would you like to leave things as they are?"
Because that is the real question, and the existence and history of the S class pedelecs proves it to be so.
.
seems to me (after 3 rides so I'm now an expert) that the time I really need the assistance is uphill, when 15.5mph is just fine. I tried to do a steep climb on 'boost' setting in 11th gear and when I got to the assist limit, it was like a lead weight. Trying again in 3rd or 4th gear was much smoother. On the flat, I have had no issue getting up to about 25mph and the assist drop-off is really not a problem at all in the right gear...
Fact is, if you are prepared for all the hassle, licences, MOT, VEL, Insurance, helmet and restrictions as to where you can ride, you can have an ebike capable of 70mph.
Well I feel that 15mph is enough here in brighton with our badly potholed cycle paths with large humps caused by tree roots etc.
The sea front paths are in better nick but very congested with other cyclists and large numbers of tourists walking along them, Your lucky to reach 15mph and maintain that speed for any lenth of time.
There's a 20mph speed limit here on most of our roads, (city center) it would be nice to be able to reach and keep that speed whilst in the main flow of traffic, the car drivers would have nothing to complain about at least.
I Voted 20mph, fast enough on 16 inch wheels. But can understand why others may want more.
Dave.
The sea front paths are in better nick but very congested with other cyclists and large numbers of tourists walking along them, Your lucky to reach 15mph and maintain that speed for any lenth of time.
There's a 20mph speed limit here on most of our roads, (city center) it would be nice to be able to reach and keep that speed whilst in the main flow of traffic, the car drivers would have nothing to complain about at least.
I Voted 20mph, fast enough on 16 inch wheels. But can understand why others may want more.
Dave.
My vote would be 20 mph although I cannot see any changes happening any time soon.
After all if you are happy with the current limit you do not have to ride any faster than you do at the moment.
For any regular commuter on the road in the mix with other traffic going that little bit faster in my opinion would actually be safer.
I think far fewer people would feel the need to de restrict if that were the limit.
To the extent that with a 20mph limit I think there would be a good chance most people would ride legal.
At the moment with dongles making it so easy to de restrict the horse has kind of bolted.
Though if you ride a de restricted bike you need to seriously risk assess your journeys and be prepared to go legal if the attitude of the long arm of the law were to change.
One thing I have really enjoyed about riding an ebike as an early adopter is that there have been up to now so few other people riding them that I have been right under the radar just how I like it.
A bit like a pioneer of the wild west, but I am seeing more and more people riding them now and as the numbers rise inevitably more and more people become aware of them and before you know it there will be a whole raft of rules most if not all of which will be annoying and unnecessary.
Hey ho it is the way of the modern world. Wretched.
After all if you are happy with the current limit you do not have to ride any faster than you do at the moment.
For any regular commuter on the road in the mix with other traffic going that little bit faster in my opinion would actually be safer.
I think far fewer people would feel the need to de restrict if that were the limit.
To the extent that with a 20mph limit I think there would be a good chance most people would ride legal.
At the moment with dongles making it so easy to de restrict the horse has kind of bolted.
Though if you ride a de restricted bike you need to seriously risk assess your journeys and be prepared to go legal if the attitude of the long arm of the law were to change.
One thing I have really enjoyed about riding an ebike as an early adopter is that there have been up to now so few other people riding them that I have been right under the radar just how I like it.
A bit like a pioneer of the wild west, but I am seeing more and more people riding them now and as the numbers rise inevitably more and more people become aware of them and before you know it there will be a whole raft of rules most if not all of which will be annoying and unnecessary.
Hey ho it is the way of the modern world. Wretched.
Oh there was one idea I had. Instead of a speed limit where the motor cuts out I thought that you could keep the speed cut off for the higher power settings but have no speed cut of for the eco setting. This would remove the hitting the wall issue some people have at the momen.
This is just a small little forum and our thoughts about speed limits are ours alone.
Nobody else cares.
All they ask is that ebikes not be dangerous to them.
The likelihood of the EU agreeing to a higher limit is zero.
Even after Brexit the UK parliament will be closely following the EU and also other countries for matters such as these.
Unless our speed limits become seriously out of step with Europe, China, USA etc. nothing will change.
Modern countries tend to march in step regardless of local politics, India has just legalised gay marriage or something following a long list of other countries that have done so.
The basic message of if you want to trade, then you must be like us is paramount.
Some countries such as Saudi with their enormous oil wealth can stay out of step for a long time, but eventually they will also face an economic downturn and have to get in step.
The international pressures on governments to be just like all the others must not be underestimated.
Nobody else cares.
All they ask is that ebikes not be dangerous to them.
The likelihood of the EU agreeing to a higher limit is zero.
Even after Brexit the UK parliament will be closely following the EU and also other countries for matters such as these.
Unless our speed limits become seriously out of step with Europe, China, USA etc. nothing will change.
Modern countries tend to march in step regardless of local politics, India has just legalised gay marriage or something following a long list of other countries that have done so.
The basic message of if you want to trade, then you must be like us is paramount.
Some countries such as Saudi with their enormous oil wealth can stay out of step for a long time, but eventually they will also face an economic downturn and have to get in step.
The international pressures on governments to be just like all the others must not be underestimated.
But is 20mph so bad on an ebike. Usa has some problems sure, I'm not sure I'd be willing to take them all, but they cap ebikes at 20. I'd like that.
Since the 20 mph limit for vehicles in rural areas is in effect here, and everybody knows vehicles flaunt it until a speed meter shows up, 20mph is the lowest speed expected on roads. And it would help a load to change opinions of drivers the average speed of bikers.
How many times have you had some a**hole in an suv overtake you because.. they see a bike and they're slow so, GOGOGO regardless of the situation
If people were to become used to bikes going up to 20mph that's a standard they could get used to.
Me, I'm okay. Doing 17.5 without a dongle so.. that will do. But still, makes sense to me that ebikes can do the speed limit in towns/built up areas.
Since the 20 mph limit for vehicles in rural areas is in effect here, and everybody knows vehicles flaunt it until a speed meter shows up, 20mph is the lowest speed expected on roads. And it would help a load to change opinions of drivers the average speed of bikers.
How many times have you had some a**hole in an suv overtake you because.. they see a bike and they're slow so, GOGOGO regardless of the situation
If people were to become used to bikes going up to 20mph that's a standard they could get used to.
Me, I'm okay. Doing 17.5 without a dongle so.. that will do. But still, makes sense to me that ebikes can do the speed limit in towns/built up areas.
Many make this argument but I don't agree since it only looks at one aspect, keeping with supposed traffic speeds.
My disagreement is for these three reasons:
The supposed traffic speed of 20 mph isn't factual, traffic even in 20 limit areas is often faster, most drivers in my 20 limit drive at nearer 30 mph and still want to get past bikes.
A 20 limit means more sit upright bikes doing 20 mph with pedestrians not expecting that, so more collisions as they misjudge approach speeds.
And the same with drivers misjudging the e-bike's approach speed, so more right turning or pulling out into the bike path incidents and collisions.
Ergo, with one partially fictitious advantage and three known disadvantages, a 20 mph assist limit would be likely to bring more serious accidents.
.
For a variety of reasons I remain happy with the current legislation applicable to EAPCs. The 25kph maximum at which point assistance tails off is plenty in my opinion. If cyclists have a need to reach and maintain speeds greater, then perhaps they should buy a 7kg road bike and pedal hard.
This obsession with speed that some have brings into question the point and the purpose of electrical assistance on bicycles bearing in mind there are other ways on two wheels to maintain higher speeds without breaking the law.
In some ways, I'm glad that the S-Class bikes remain illegal in the UK unless registered, insured, etc, as I fear that those who demand greater speed under assistance would buy them, not comply with the necessary legislation and simply abuse those privileges that cyclists enjoy under current law.
Tom
This obsession with speed that some have brings into question the point and the purpose of electrical assistance on bicycles bearing in mind there are other ways on two wheels to maintain higher speeds without breaking the law.
In some ways, I'm glad that the S-Class bikes remain illegal in the UK unless registered, insured, etc, as I fear that those who demand greater speed under assistance would buy them, not comply with the necessary legislation and simply abuse those privileges that cyclists enjoy under current law.
Tom
I don't buy the safety argument. I can regularly do 35mph going down the hill my house is on without even pedalling so what difference will a 20mph limit make?
That said I think the current legislation is remarkably sensible. There will always be folks that want to go faster whatever the cutoff limit is, but the current limit is already faster than most riders can sustain, entirely practical, and going significantly faster will eat into your battery range.
That said I think the current legislation is remarkably sensible. There will always be folks that want to go faster whatever the cutoff limit is, but the current limit is already faster than most riders can sustain, entirely practical, and going significantly faster will eat into your battery range.
But that 35 downhill isn't in a high street with pedestrians crossing and drivers right turning across your bows or pulling out in front of you, thinking you will be slower.
That's where people don't expect a sit-upright bike to be doing 20 mph and then misjudge. Just like the woman did in front of a 20 mph e-bike straight after a slower bike had passed her. She clearly expected the second bike to equally slower.
Link to video post
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Having ridden an s class and a 15.5 mph bike back to back plus I'm normally a touring cyclist and have been using ebike to help with injury I will say that it's not the 15.5 limit which is wrong it's the way the power drops off. I suppose my normal touring speed with camping kit would be 12-14 mph average but in that average I would often be riding at around 17-18 mph. With that in mind it's down to common sense 17- 18 when riding on fast roads 15-16 on country lanes then under 12 on cycle paths depending on how busy they are. Thumping along at 28 mph might sound great but to do that whilst peddling like mad isn't so much fun as an ebike is quite a lump and could get you in trouble around the twisty bits. So for me I'd say 18 is a better cut off but only for a peddle assist bike not a throttle machine as if you want that do your CBT and get a moped or motorbike.
Incidentally I'm also a tandem rider and with 2 fit people on 25 mph isn't a problem and down hill 40-55 on the right road is easily done.
Incidentally I'm also a tandem rider and with 2 fit people on 25 mph isn't a problem and down hill 40-55 on the right road is easily done.
That kind of presumes, Tim, that those people who choose to ride unregistered S-class machines and others who ride bikes deliberately set up outside of the legal parameters are somehow going to suddenly adhere to a revised law just because the maximum assisted speed is adjusted upwards slightly which might be considered, as you suggest, common sense. I'm afraid I don't buy that.
It's all about speed for them and as such, they should be riding either lightweight road bikes or using motorcycles/scooters, electric ones if they are concerned about the environment, which seems unlikely as they show no regard for the laws applicable to EAPCs as they stand.
Tom
You are permitted 17 mph assisted legally. The DfT have confirmed that the usual 10% tolerance applies to the pedelec assist limit as it does with all other speed limits.
So 15.5 mph + 10% = 17.05 mph
If your system can be set up for that there's no problem.
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Late summer, silly season, usual suspects,
Speed limits,
soon it will be helmets, then back to idiotic pedestrians and dog walkers.
Speed limits,
soon it will be helmets, then back to idiotic pedestrians and dog walkers.
You are mixing up guidelines with the law. You are right in saying guidelines have been issued (for motor vehicles) that allow a 10% leeway, plus 3mph, but they are just guidelines and in the news recently was a report that under plans favoured by West Mercia's Chief Constable, drivers could be fined for going just 1mph over the speed limit.
Now we all know the odds of being pulled for doing a couple of MPH over the top are remote, (car, bike or totherwise) but a bored copper on a slow day in an area where there is a crackdown on speeding taking place and said bored copper is wondering why you're going so fast on a push bike and it could happen; particularly if an incident has taken place and they suspect you're e-bike has been modified.
This leads onto a second thought. Exactly which law would the authorities use to charge a cyclist with speeding? As we all know the current speeding laws do not apply to traditional cycles or legal e-bike, but if you've modified your e-bike to have a higher top speed then it's no longer an e-bike, but a moped, and all of a sudden the the law does apply and you're not speeding. See what I'm getting at. Okay you might be up to your neck in it for using an unregistered, untaxed etc bike, but (unless you actually are going above the signed speed limit), the rules have changed.
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