New Hailong integrated controller not as good as I hoped

[Jammyb]

My new Hailong controller turned up the other day and is now installed running my new 36v 350w rear yose power motor.



Unfortunately it doesn't control the motor any where near as good as this temporary non integrated one I've been using:


This KT36/48ZWSRM is a perfect match to the wheel (if only it was smaller and integrated).

The new hailong controller which i thought would be the same seems to be noisier with a low pitch winding noise. It does work but its not as smooth and quiet as the external one. It vibrates the frame a little more and doesn't run the wheel at full speed with a constant tone.

I've been in contact with topbikekit.com and exchanged a lot of messages and videos, they have been very helpful and im impressed with their support. I thought perhaps the new controller wasn't a sine wave model which was why it's a but rougher running but after sending photos of my old one to them and them checking with the manufacture they actually confirm the opposite, my external controller is a square wave and the internal is definitely a sine wave controller. Tried all sorts of settings and parameters they had suggested but nothing seems to make the new controller run the motor as smooth.

The have offered me a full refund including return postage so can't say fairer than that.

I can't decide whether to live with the slightly rougher running for a clean look bike or go back to the external one in a triangle bag again at the moment.

Thought i'd share my findings in case anyone was planning on using the same combination.

I've uploaded 3 videos comparing the 2 controllers on youtube here:

direct comparison

external controller

Integrated hailong controller

 

[jarob10]

Can you post your P and C settings?

 

[Jammyb]

Can you post your P and C settings?

Hi Jarob10

My current settings are below, yosepower don't list the reduction ratio but I found this motor on aliexpress that has the same format writing stamped on it so believe it to be the same motor. Mine is 36EW-G27C H19090881

I've tried various C2 settings, i think 4 or 5 also worked but no noticeable difference to the default 0 value.

Do you use the same controller ?

P1 = 88 (reduction ratio 1:4.4 x 20 mags)
P2 = 0 (internal motor speed)
P3 = 1 (current control)
P4 = 0 (thottle aways active)
P5 = 00 (real time voltage)

C1 = 05 (KT-V12 sensor)
C2 = 0 (sinewave quantum motor - tried others)
C3 = 8 (last assist on powerup)
C4 = 0
C5 = 04 (current limit)
C6 = 1 (lcd brighness)
C7 = 0 (cruise control active)
C8 = 0
C9 = 0
C10 = n
C11 = 0
C12 = 3 (default 40v lvc for 13s5p batt)
C13 = 0
C14 = 3 (strong power assist strength)

 

[jarob10]

I’ve 5 of these controllers, been running them for a couple of years now, both 6 and 9 mosfet versions (all 36v)

the noise & vibration issues suggest P1 setting. I set P1 at 202 for my q128c’s. You can experiment with multiples of 88 I think.

Do your troubleshooting with the PAS unplugged, Ive always had to set C1 by trial and error (same pas, different controller needs a different C1 value to run well), but a smooth running motor on the throttle is needed first.

 

[Jammyb]

I’ve 5 of these controllers, been running them for a couple of years now, both 6 and 9 mosfet versions (all 36v)

the noise & vibration issues suggest P1 setting. I set P1 at 202 for my q128c’s. You can experiment with multiples of 88 I think.

Do your troubleshooting with the PAS unplugged, Ive always had to set C1 by trial and error (same pas, different controller needs a different C1 value to run well), but a smooth running motor on the throttle is needed first.

Thanks, I haven’t tried P1 that high, I have tried from about 50-115 but I couldn’t tell any difference only that it would not spin at full speed below 50-60

I also still have the 6 mosfit 36v hailong controller and battery from my original yose power kit. That combo does seem to run the motor fine but obviously want to use my new 48v I’ve recently upgraded to.

thanks for your suggestion of multiples of 88, will let you know how I get on

 

[Jammyb]

Tried setting P1 to 176 yesterday but unfortunately didn't seem to make any difference. Not 100% sure if motor has 16 or 20 magnets so also tried 4.4x16 and multiples there of (P1 = 70, 140, 210) Strange though I can't detect any change in all these settings, only as previously found P1 = 60 or less prevents the motor spinning at full speed and seems to reduce unloaded speed to around 15mph or less.

Think i'll stick for now using the integrated controller though, it's not so bad once riding compared to hearing it on the bike stand. Just annoying knowing it can run smoother and quieter with the external controller. I know I could go back to that one and mount it on the bike frame somewhere - it's just I like the minimal look on the bike.

noticed this morning the part that vibrates / resonates the most is the front chain swing arm - might replace that at some point with a new one.

 

[PC2017]

I am old school with a dolphin battery and I loved the stealthiness of an integrated controller but there is now only one supplier that makes em and charge the earth...

I noticed that the external controller were square wave, I always assumed they were sine, I found an external sine on aliex it's a bit pricey and has an extra julet for a bike light, but it looks cool in black!... I think I'l make a purchase...https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32963099566.html
Edit Oooh its only 14a good for the 48v not good for my 36v on a 250w motor

non integrated

That's the one I got from aliex a while back however on the 36v battery it would cut out at 33v I have yet to try it on the new 48v battery, my new controller on the 48v does the opposite and wont cut out at 40v I am cursed!

 

[Jammyb]

I am old school with a dolphin battery and I loved the stealthiness of an integrated controller but there is now only one supplier that makes em and charge the earth...

I noticed that the external controller were square wave, I always assumed they were sine, I found an external sine on aliex it's a bit pricey and has an extra julet for a bike light, but it looks cool in black!... I think I'l make a purchase...https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32963099566.html
Edit Oooh its only 14a good for the 48v not good for my 36v on a 250w motor

I think this would be the one to go for for the best external with waterproof connections:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33004887423.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.13.3fce107fIZTt8X

That's the one I got from aliex a while back however on the 36v battery it would cut out at 33v I have yet to try it on the new 48v battery, my new controller on the 48v does the opposite and wont cut out at 40v I am cursed!

Did you get the 48v version of the integrated controller ? I've since been informed by topbikekit guys that these internal ones are not auto voltage sensing between 36v/48v. So 48v controller version is only for 48v batteries and 36v controller for 36v batts.

 

[PC2017]

48v version of the integrated controller

I think there is one for the dolphin mount however it is just 48v like topbikes integrated one, however I am looking at £100+ and it'll be 20 amp I was wanting just a 17a, I have shopped with Topbike before I like them guys it's a shame they dont do a sine wave 17a julet 36/48v

 

[Nealh]

P1 84 I used for my Yose and Bafang Cst.
Ideally if a hub doesn't work correctly on PAS you shouldn't begiving the controller full current using the throttle unless you wan t ot fork out again for another controller.

P1 set wrong also affects correct speed read out compared to a GPS reading.
Go for a ride using a GPS for speed read out and compare it to the lcd speed set with P1, set the bike speed on the lcd to 25km/h. If it doesn't match the GPS speed then adjust p1 value, raise the P1 value if lcd speed is low and lower P1 if the lcd speed is to high. Once you get the speeds matched within 0.2 km/h then you will have as near correct P1 value possible, you can then reset lcd speed setting to what ever you wish knowing the lcd readout is pretty well acurate.

 

[jarob10]

you shouldn't begiving the controller full current using the throttle unless you wan t ot fork out again for another controller.

I thought this concern is only valid if there’s a suspicion phase / hall wires are crossed?

 

[Jammyb]

I thought this concern is only valid if there’s a suspicion phase / hall wires are crossed?

I'm pretty sure there not crossed, wouldn't that make it just run terribly. I mean its does work perfectly ...just not quiet as smooth and quiet as the external square wave controller.

P1 84 I used for my Yose and Bafang Cst.
Ideally if a hub doesn't work correctly on PAS you shouldn't begiving the controller full current using the throttle unless you wan t ot fork out again for another controller.

Thanks Nealh - The videos are just using throttle but the PAS seems to also work fine.
Do you think from the sound in the videos it's that bad a match to end up toasting the controller ?

P1 set wrong also affects correct speed read out compared to a GPS reading.
Go for a ride using a GPS for speed read out and compare it to the lcd speed set with P1, set the bike speed on the lcd to 25km/h. If it doesn't match the GPS speed then adjust p1 value, raise the P1 value if lcd speed is low and lower P1 if the lcd speed is to high. Once you get the speeds matched within 0.2 km/h then you will have as near correct P1 value possible, you can then reset lcd speed setting to what ever you wish knowing the lcd readout is pretty well acurate.

Thanks, i did try initially with p1 set to 88 comparing to the gps on my phone and it was pretty much the same reading, but i will try that again more thoroughly using the method you describe.

Got to thinking now I understand the KT model ref 36/48 SVPRM (sine wave) and 36/48 ZWSRM (square wave)
There's no model description on the internal controller, is there any way to identify from the pcm the difference between the sine wave / square wave models - different component ? or is it all software related?

I would really love to know if this motor would be much much quieter still with a 100% confirmed sine wave controller such as this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33004887423.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.13.3fce107fIZTt8X

There's not many videos of these hubs on youtube, does anyone else run one with a sine wave controller that's noticeably quieter than mine in any of these video clips?

 

[Nealh]

Sinewave utilises 5 or 6 small hall wires as well as the three thicker phase wires whereas Sq wave only utilises the three Phase wires.

Both controller/motor combos sound fine.

 

[Jammyb]

Sinewave utilises 5 or 6 small hall wires as well as the three thicker phase wires whereas Sq wave only utilises the three Phase wires.

Both controller/motor combos sound fine.

Ah, well this is what I thought originally but both versions of the 9mosfet KT36/48SVPRM and KT36/48ZWSRM controllers seem to have the hall control wires as well as phase so there must be more to it than that ?

 

[harrys]

Have you ridden the bike with either controller? I had a 20Am 6FET KT sine wave model (external) that sounded quite smooth with wheel off the ground, but it made a noise like your internal unit when riding.

I had built two bikes with identical Q100H motor and controllers. The other one was quiet (and also faster), I verified that the noise followed the controller, and I junked the noisier one. If I hadn't had two bikes to compare, I might have accepted the noisier one as normal.

SInce then, I've bought three more units, and all ran fine.

 

[PC2017]

I verified that the noise followed the controller

I assume that these Chinese factories make thousands of units a day and QC is often missed, there is also the possibility it had "sine wave" on the shell but in fact was a square.... Did you not sell the parts or try and buy a new controller instead of "junking" the whole thing?

 

[harrys]

I know the sound of a square wave controller, having started with several. This was more of a growl coming out of a sine wave controller. I couldn't return it because I had already run my 9 pin motor cable inside and soldered it up. Makes for a more compact install, and having the wires inside removes the need to worry about strain relief.



I also appreciate your concerns about a clean install. Where to put an external controller so it doesn't look like a wart.

I started using luggage racks and mounting them underneath. Painted them black. I found that I needed fenders or water got into the JST connectors.


The most recent change is to use the smaller controller boxes, except the ones I found are only 60mm inside, while my KT controllers are 62mm. So I cut out a slot. Better for cooling anyway. Also, the mounts don't fit most downtubes, so one has to adapt.