Help! New e-bike for 16 mile commute

[pgallego96]

Hi all,

I've recently moved to a new area, very rural and very car dependent (no public transport to get to work). We already have one car and while we did think to get a second car, I thought why not look into an e-bike to save a lot of money on all the costs that come with car ownership.

My commute will be about 16 miles each way, quite hilly in both directions. It would probably take me about 1h15 ± 15 minutes each way realistically to begin with. I wouldn't really mind the length of time as I'm doing physical activity, and I could cycle onto a train if I'm ever feeling a bit more tired which would shorten the commute time (Northern trains so I can just pop on without booking).

In terms of e-bikes I'm looking for something in which the battery should hopefully last at least most of the journey, can fit paniers on, is reliable and won't be too obscure to have it repaired. Some of the route might have some gravel on drier days, but more rainy days I might stick to roads.

Price wise, I'd like to keep it on the more affordable side, while avoiding the cheap things that might not last long. If I could get away with 1500-2000 that would be optimal, but I'm not too familiar with e-bike pricing to be honest.

Hopefully this is enough info to get some help with ideas, but otherwise just ask!

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Thanks for the video link! I had come across it while looking around online as well. I have ended up between the Camino and the Santana just for extra comfort over the Faro, and a bit more flexibility with road options.

I am 175cm tall, would the Santana be more comfortable to ride long distances in my height? I'm not sure if being on the lower height of the Camino will make me have to reach forward too much while riding.

I've found "Dutch style" bikes like the Santana very comfortable for 40-50 mile rides

 

[saneagle]

The Faro has 40NM Aikema 85SX motor, the Camino 45NM Shengyi DWG07, the Satana has 50NM Bafang SWX02 and the Gran Camino has 55NM Shengyi DWG22. The controller on the Faro has 14A max, the Camino 16A, the Santana 18A and the Gran Camino 20A.
Hill climbing at relatively low speed: best is the Gran-Camino.

Motors don't have torque. The torque figure that manufacturers give is just a number that's a result of some arbitrary test conditions, and it has no relevance to what anybody would get in real life. The torque is determined by the battery voltage and the current that the controller allows. You can quote the maximum torque of any complete bike, where motor type, wheel size, max current and voltage are fixed, but not for a motor on its own.

As a rough guide, with any motor, 48v gives approximately 30% more torque than 36v if everything else is the same, and torque is roughly proportion to current. Additionally, the hill climbing ability from any motor is inversely proportional to wheel size. The Aikema 85SX can climb any hill with low current and 36v if you put it in a 16" wheel.

 

[saneagle]

They are maximum torque, at around 2-3mph just before the motor stalls on maximum throttle. figures are useful for comparison.

They're not. You can give the torque for any bike or any kit, but not the motor on its own.

 

[Woosh]

They're not. You can give the torque for any bike or any kit, but not the motor on its own.

They are given in the context of my bikes and kits.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I'd compared some on the Grin Motor Simulator site that you can get quite different results for different motors so comparing a Aikema G75 with 14A compared to a DGWX with 20A on a 12% slope
Not sure how representative that is of your motors and the windings - my XF08C that I got from Woosh seemed to cope better with hills than the simulator for XF07 suggested


Noticed the MXUS XF07 seemed to do well on hills at these lowish speeds

 

[Woosh]

there are some quirks in their motor simulator.
Use this baseline settings and change the motor:
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MDGWX&cont=C20&cont_b=C20&motor_b=MDGWX&batt_b=B3617_35E&batt=B3617_35E

 

[saneagle]

They are given in the context of my bikes and kits.

In that case you should have written,
"The Faro has 40NM and Aikema 85SX motor, the Camino 45NM and Shengyi DWG07, the Satana has 50NM and Bafang SWX02 and the Gran Camino has 55NM and Shengyi DWG22. The controller on the Faro has 14A max, the Camino 16A, the Santana 18A and the Gran Camino 20A. "

 

[flecc]

In that case you should have written,
"The Faro has 40NM and Aikema 85SX motor, the Camino 45NM and Shengyi DWG07, the Satana has 50NM and Bafang SWX02 and the Gran Camino has 55NM and Shengyi DWG22. The controller on the Faro has 14A max, the Camino 16A, the Santana 18A and the Gran Camino 20A. "

Which is exactly what Woosh did in this post starting this difference.

As you later agreed in posting this:

They're not. You can give the torque for any bike or any kit, but not the motor on its own.

Just what he did for his named bike models.
.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

there are some quirks in their motor simulator.
Use this baseline settings and change the motor:
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MDGWX&cont=C20&cont_b=C20&motor_b=MDGWX&batt_b=B3617_35E&batt=B3617_35E

OMG - that Gran-Camino is flying up 12% hills !

 

[saneagle]

Which is exactly what Woosh did in this post starting this difference.

As you later agreed in posting this:



Just what he did for his named bike models.
.

Time for you to get some new reading glasses, Flecc.

 

[Woosh]

Original quote:

The Faro has 40NM Aikema 85SX motor, the Camino 45NM Shengyi DWG07, the Satana has 50NM Bafang SWX02 and the Gran Camino has 55NM Shengyi DWG22. The controller on the Faro has 14A max, the Camino 16A, the Santana 18A and the Gran Camino 20A.
Hill climbing at relatively low speed: best is the Gran-Camino.

Saneagle's version:

In that case you should have written,
"The Faro has 40NM and Aikema 85SX motor, the Camino 45NM and Shengyi DWG07, the Satana has 50NM and Bafang SWX02 and the Gran Camino has 55NM and Shengyi DWG22. The controller on the Faro has 14A max, the Camino 16A, the Santana 18A and the Gran Camino 20A. "

Saneagle's version is more concise but I think the gist is the same.

 

[saneagle]

Original quote:

Saneagle's version:

Saneagle's version is more concise but I think the gist is the same.

The gist is not the same. There's no such thing as a 50Nm motor, but you can have a 50NM ebike. In simple terms, you can have a 50Nm bike that has a motor but you can't have a bike that has a 50Nm motor. It's the bike's control system and battery that determine how much torque you get, not the motor. The same motor with differnt bikes with different controllers with different currents will give different amounts of torque. Different motors in the same bike with the same controllers and batteries will give similar amounts of torque as long as the motors aren't fundamentally different.

Flecc already corrected somebody else on that recently, so he clearly made a mistake with his reading in this case.

 

[Woosh]

Different motors in the same bike with the same controllers and batteries will give similar amounts of torque as long as the motors aren't fundamentally different.

the difference is sometimes quite striking, beside the fact that small motors suffer a lot more from overheating. Compare for example a substitution of the DWG22 with Bafang G01 (BAFANG | Motor | RM G010.250.D (bafang-e.com) ) using the same motor emulator:
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MDGWX&cont=C20&cont_b=C20&motor_b=MDGWX&batt_b=B3617_35E&batt=B3617_35E
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MG01_STD&cont=C20&cont_b=C20&motor_b=MDGWX&batt_b=B3617_35E&batt=B3617_35E
The maximum torque for the Shengyi is 55NM, for MG01_STD 37NM. The MG01_STD weighs 3kgs, the DWG22 weighs 4.5kgs.

 

[flecc]

Saneagle's version is more concise but I think the gist is the same.

The gist is identical, you quoted the models by name, the motors they are equipped with and their respective controllers maximum amps, all that is needed and matching this statement:

You can quote the maximum torque of any complete bike, where motor type, wheel size, max current and voltage are fixed.

How concisely you posted is your prerogative of course.
.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

the difference is sometimes quite striking, beside the fact that small motors suffer a lot more from overheating. Compare for example a substitution of the DWG22 with Bafang G01 (BAFANG | Motor | RM G010.250.D (bafang-e.com) ) using the same motor emulator:
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MDGWX&cont=C20&cont_b=C20&motor_b=MDGWX&batt_b=B3617_35E&batt=B3617_35E
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MG01_STD&cont=C20&cont_b=C20&motor_b=MDGWX&batt_b=B3617_35E&batt=B3617_35E
The maximum torque for the Shengyi is 55NM, for MG01_STD 37NM. The MG01_STD weighs 3kgs, the DWG22 weighs 4.5kgs.

That's very interesting - comparing for instance the Bafang G01 (std) vs G01(Fst) with a 700C wheel - the standard does get you up hills quicker but with 100W human power there is very little difference in the top speeds on the flat. However with 250 or 300 W human power the Fast does pull ahead because the std is approaching the max no load speed

 

[flecc]

The gist is not the same. There's no such thing as a 50Nm motor, but you can have a 50NM ebike. In simple terms, you can have a 50Nm bike that has a motor but you can't have a bike that has a 50Nm motor. It's the bike's control system and battery that determine how much torque you get, not the motor. The same motor with differnt bikes with different controllers with different currents will give different amounts of torque. Different motors in the same bike with the same controllers and batteries will give similar amounts of torque as long as the motors aren't fundamentally different.

Your pedantry is now becoming very silly. Woosh was posting the capabilities of his pedelecs, I and another saw that and appended "Likes" since his meaning was very clear.

Yes the post's wording could be improved for technical perfection, but I would never nitpick as you are doing, knowing as I do, and I think you do also, that Woosh is a Francophone, English with its grammar being a second language.

As for my vision, it's 6/6 metric, old standard 20/20 imperial. Since I've been equipped with Monovision correction I can both read small print and enjoy excellent distance sight all without any spectacles or contact lenses of any kind.
.

 

[saneagle]

the difference is sometimes quite striking, beside the fact that small motors suffer a lot more from overheating. Compare for example a substitution of the DWG22 with Bafang G01 (BAFANG | Motor | RM G010.250.D (bafang-e.com) ) using the same motor emulator:
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MDGWX&cont=C20&cont_b=C20&motor_b=MDGWX&batt_b=B3617_35E&batt=B3617_35E
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MG01_STD&cont=C20&cont_b=C20&motor_b=MDGWX&batt_b=B3617_35E&batt=B3617_35E
The maximum torque for the Shengyi is 55NM, for MG01_STD 37NM. The MG01_STD weighs 3kgs, the DWG22 weighs 4.5kgs.

Of course there#'s going to be a difference when one is wound for double the speed of the other.

 

[saneagle]

Your pedantry is now becoming very silly. Woosh was posting the capabilities of his pedelecs, I and another saw that and appended "Likes" since his meaning was very clear.

Yes the post's wording could be improved for technical perfection, but I would never nitpick as you are doing, knowing as I do, and I think you do also, that Woosh is a Francophone, English with its grammar being a second language.

As for my vision, it's 6/6 metric, old standard 20/20 imperial. Since I've been equipped with Monovision correction I can both read small print and enjoy excellent distance sight all without any spectacles or contact lenses of any kind.
.

Why did you have to correct the guy the other day then, Mr Pedant?

 

[flecc]

Why did you have to correct the guy the other day then, Mr Pedant?

I'm unaware of doing so, and a search of my recent posts hasn't enlightened me.

Perhaps you could furnish a link?
.

 

[pgallego96]

Hey all! Just wanted to say thanks for all the help again. I've ended up ordering a Camino from Woosh which I'm very excited about, should be arriving next week and hopefully I'll be comfortable riding it quickly and can start commuting with it. Maybe I can give an update once I've riden it a bit