New Bosch motor..

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

Hi all,

Following Flecc's post with the news from eddie..
I had the pleasure last week of seeing one of the new Bosch motors situated on a bike. Bosch has been testing this new motor type for a while now. They like to make sure things are perfect rather than rush a launch and regret it later.

This whole new motor thing has been a big secret from Bosch in order to keep all news kept hush until their big unveiling at Euro Bike later this year. So I wont give too much away..

I cant post a picture of how the motor is mounted (don't want to upset anyone) but you can easily get a picture of the motor itself with a quick Google search.

The way it is mounted is interesting as it allows much more ground clearance compared to the current one when under slung.

The new motor is slightly smaller. It also comes with a new slimmer battery. It uses the same heads up display and left hand controller as the most current Bosch kit already available. Although the new battery will not be backwards compatible with the current kit. (Also talk of being able to charge the battery on the bike but I cannot confirm this myself)

The new motor will operate similar torque to the current unit. It will also keep the same wattage and the same assistance levels.

The most interesting change is the front sprocket used with the motor, its around 18t. So at first glance looks almost like a trials bike set-up (man I wish I could post a photo!). With this set-up the motor will run at a higher RPM and power consumption in higher gears should be minimal.

All of this should be confirmed at their launch. Along with pictures and many more details I am sure. I will be there at the launch so will keep everyone updated.

As for the new motor being featured on new ebike models. Well; its a tough one because Bosch are only launching this at eurobike. Alongside where most manufacturers will be launching their new 2014 range of bikes. Some pictures I have seen confirm that new models may come with the new bosch kit. Although these models wont be available until a bit further down the line. The current motor will follow through to next year and run alongside the new motor design. Its likely the new motor will only be mounted on higher end models and there will probably be a decent price tag alongside these bikes.

The current motor will still be the most popular choice for manufacturers. Down to lead times and cost at present. Its likely the new motor will be a more popular choice on 2015 models which we are a long way off yet.

Regards
Martin

 

[flecc]

Thanks for the info Martin. That smaller sprocket running at higher speed means less reduction gearing necessary, which could make for the smaller overall size. However, either the cranks must be geared up internally in compensation to avoid insane cadences, or the motor sprocket is separate as on the Panasonic which I very much doubt.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

Thanks for the info Martin. That smaller sprocket running at higher speed means less reduction gearing necessary, which could make for the smaller overall size. However, either the cranks must be geared up internally in compensation to avoid insane cadences, or the motor sprocket is separate as on the Panasonic which I very much doubt.

I think the motor will be geared up internally. Otherwise like you say you would be pedalling at a crazy cadence!
The spline for cranks looks the same as the current Bosch kit. But I will confirm when at the launch in Germany.

Martin

 

[flecc]

You're off the hook for photos Martin! Eddie has sent me a link to a Dutch site which I've linked to below in the translated page:

New smaller Bosch Motor System

It seems it can't be speed boosted like the original according to this site.
.

 

[103Alex1]

... and still a max 11,6Ah battery in the offing. Definitely no prospect of Bosch tempting me on the horizon by the looks of it ! Orbital prices, hundreds of pounds for second batteries and new motors 'tuned out.

Wonder if the torque claims will also go the way of the Storck ones and prove to be more theoretical than procurable !

 

[flecc]

Crank motors can usually live up to the torque claims since any figure within reason is achievable by changing down the gears.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

You're off the hook for photos Martin! Eddie has sent me a link to a Dutch site which I've linked to below in the translated page:

New smaller Bosch Motor System

It seems it can't be speed boosted like the original according to this site.
.

Hi Flecc,

Yep saw that on there, the real secret is seeing the new unit mounted in an ebike!

Martin

 

[flecc]

Hi Flecc,

Yep saw that on there, the real secret is seeing the new unit mounted in an ebike!

Martin

There's always Photoshop!

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

There's always Photoshop!

Haha, you'd only fooling yourself with trickery!

Martin

 

[flecc]

More info from Eddie:

A YouTube video of one being ridden.

A website showing some bike variations with pannier batteries:

Translated from the German

And a close up of the unit in a bike:

 

[103Alex1]

^^ That's one tiny front chainring !

 

[Artstu]

^^ That's one tiny front chainring !

Indeed, so that surely means there is no direct drive, so there must be some losses involved if riding off power.

 

[flecc]

I'm guessing there's an internal concentric epicyclic to change down the motor output speed to pedal speed. If well designed the losses shouldn't be to noticeable, but of course this is a pedelec with variable motor output settings, so there's no need to ever ride it without any assist power.

 

[Artstu]

but of course this is a pedelec with variable motor output settings, so there's no need to ever ride it without any assist power.

Unless you go too far and run out of power, something I'm now finding is restricting where I ride.

 

[flecc]

Unless you go too far and run out of power, something I'm now finding is restricting where I ride.

Yes, a disadvantage then, but I find the idea of not having a large dirty chainwheel appealing on an e-bike. It will be very easy to provide a chainguard to cover both chain runs on some models, especially when with a hub gear.

We'll have to see what it's like in practice.
.

 

[BAH48]

There are two reasons why I ride my Bosch without power, to extend battery life and to eliminate motor noise. I find that I don't need power on flat and the bike is just like my ordinary Trek Navigator, but without the lower gears. I rode 60 miles yesterday with just over 3000' of ascent. Battery was just about empty.

 

[flecc]

There are two reasons why I ride my Bosch without power, to extend battery life and to eliminate motor noise. I find that I don't need power on flat and the bike is just like my ordinary Trek Navigator, but without the lower gears. I rode 60 miles yesterday with just over 3000' of ascent. Battery was just about empty.

Each to their own preferences, but many of us don't see the point of buying an assist power bike and doing that. That's only 4.8 Wh per mile, making it widely considered as not worth having an e-bike and carting around all that extra weight. A consumption of 7 Wh per mile is about the lowest viable to justify carrying the extra weight, and the average consumption for a very wide range of e-bikes is around 12 Wh per mile.

 

[103Alex1]

There are two reasons why I ride my Bosch without power, to extend battery life and to eliminate motor noise. I find that I don't need power on flat and the bike is just like my ordinary Trek Navigator, but without the lower gears. I rode 60 miles yesterday with just over 3000' of ascent. Battery was just about empty.

Is the high cost of replacement batteries basically at the heart of the desire to extend battery life ? Just interested because I think they're expensive enough to dissuade people from using the very thing they've bought as much as they otherwise might.

On the motor noise is it really that noticeable on Bosch system ? I think a derailleur gear system makes as much noise as either of my motors over the duration of a ride !

Appreciate some people like to ride unpowered when they can and view the assist as something they only use when they feel they need it. However, others (including myself, especially latterly) really enjoy using the power assist for the pleasure of what it is Would just be great if at least someone sold eBikes where you could do 60 miles on power assist in challenging terrain without having to mess around with multiple batteries. Fun as well as functional with endurance & calorie expenditure taking a back seat in favour of pure machine capability and capacity. That's a machine I'd think seriously about forking out decent money for.

 

[BAH48]

Obviously noise is subjective, I don't even like the noise the motor/bottom bracket makes when riding without power, my wife's bike is exactly the same and says she hasn't noticed it. Perhaps it's just me!
It's battery life per ride that I'm interested in, I want to be able to ride 60 - 70 miles per charge and I'm just about achieving that. Of course, I put in a lot of effort and only use assistance when I need it. For me, it's the difference between a pleasant ride and an exhausting ride.

"That's only 4.8 Wh per mile"
400 battery, so more like 6.7

 

[Artstu]

It's battery life per ride that I'm interested in, I want to be able to ride 60 - 70 miles per charge and I'm just about achieving that. Of course, I put in a lot of effort and only use assistance when I need it. For me, it's the difference between a pleasant ride and an exhausting ride.

That's something I'd of liked to achieve on my bike, I still can't help but think you'd do as well on a none-powered bike?