New Bikes

[Peter Ball]

Hi,

With 5 grand to spend on two hybrid bikes for use either road, or off road, on purpose built cycle tracks, what would be a good choice. From our point of view being in the good few years retired bracket, comfort has to come into it.and also getting as much distance in as possible.

We're fairly new to the lecky bike business so don't always understand the motor description ie, 400 or 500w and also battery amps.

We're hoping to take the bikes with us when we travel in our motorhome to be able to get about when parked up on site. I already have a small box trailer so they would go in there to avoid any payload problems

Thanks very much for any advice and suggestions..

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I'm not surprised that you don't understand these units. They're often wrong in listings and the guys in the shops often use the wrong units.

It's not 400w or 500w, its 400Wh or 500Wh. A watt-hour is a unit of how much charge there is in the battery. The more watt-hours you have, the further you can go.

It's the same with battery amps. What they mean is amp-hours, which is also a unit of battery charge. The more you have, the further you go. Amp-hours x battery volts = watt-hours. As nearly all batteries are 36v, watt-hours are in direct proportion to amp-hours.

400Wh is approximately 11Ah
500Wh is approximately 14Ah

 

[Danidl]

Hi,

With 5 grand to spend on two hybrid bikes for use either road, or off road, on purpose built cycle tracks, what would be a good choice. From our point of view being in the good few years retired bracket, comfort has to come into it.and also getting as much distance in as possible.

We're fairly new to the lecky bike business so don't always understand the motor description ie, 400 or 500w and also battery amps.

We're hoping to take the bikes with us when we travel in our motorhome to be able to get about when parked up on site. I already have a small box trailer so they would go in there to avoid any payload problems

Thanks very much for any advice and suggestions..

Hi Peter, I'm surprised that you have not had a number of responses. I think that the 1600 to 2000 bracket is around the sweet spot for ebikes. It allows for the mechanical parts to be of good quality, without compromises , and allows for either a very good hub motor or a one of the crank drive central drive motors. Higher priced bikes, and the sky is the limit, tend to be more specialised .. eg mountain terrain bikes,. Enthusiastist level kit. It is the price zone at which the major European producers are pitching their durable commuter ranges.

To electric specifics. Virtually all current ebikes use an electric system at 36volts. A motor of mechanical power 250 watts, draws about 8 amp of current , from a battery and depletes the battery. A battery of 250watt hours could supply current for 1 hour, at that rate and propel the bike at 15mph . Now the power of an ordinary cyclist pedelling is about 100w , so you can see the amount of assistance the ebike is providing.. On level ground and little wind the motor might be consuming only 2 to 3amps, so that battery might provide a range of up to 40 miles. Going up hills and travelling into wind or traveling at speed will dramatically reduce the range, as the motor works harder and consumes more current, perhaps going up to 20A.
Larger batteries, have a larger capacity ,and are more expensive, and heavier. Getting batteries of 300, 400, 500 watthr is quite common. The lifetime of a battery is measured in the number of full discharges it has made and could be anywhere from 300 to 2000, depending on the manufacturer. Modern liion battery packs and their chargers are designed to work together, so it is bad practice, maybe even dangerous, to mix and match.
The style of bike you want to buy is very personal and no-one except yourselves can do that.
If you want to amble along country and city roads, lanes , canal paths, grass, clay, tarmac, cement, gravel, in the most comfort, I would suggest that one of the Dutch style bikes, where one sits up and straight is the most comfortable. With the added power of a motor, you can easily keep up with many cyclists on racing bikes. Perhaps one with smaller wheels 26 or 20 inch for your partner, as they are otherwise quite bulky. I would recommend step through frames for both.

If you want to go off road, on rocks and dunes, tree roots and forest trails then the MTB type is your only man... Thicker wheels Knobbly tyres, suspension front and rear. .. but these are a more expensive style of bike and you might find yourself paying 500 more for a bike which is less comfortable
If storage is a problem, then folders are ok. Never as comfortable as the standard bike, .. there are compromises in design, but they are lighter in weight, and easier to manouver.

 

[Benjahmin]

As previously said, the exact bike type is a very personal thing and you would be best to try as many as you can before parting with your hard earned retirement stash.
Where motors are concerned there are basically two configurations - hub motors and bottom bracket motors.
Bottom bracket motors drive through the bikes chain and gears. Most OEM ones are torque sense, that's to say that they give power as a proportion of what the rider puts in. So as your input declines (end of a long day?) so does the power given.
Hub motors fit in either the front or rear wheel and provide drive (normally via a 5:1 reduction box) directly to that wheel. Most bikes of Chinese origin are PAS sense. They give power when the pedals are rotated. Power is given up to the maximum of the setting you are in, does not depend on your input, except rotating the pedals.
Most bikes from European manufacturers are bottom bracket motors (although probably still mostly made in China and assembled in Europe). Price bracket will be from the higher end of your budget upwards.
Most Chinese bikes are hub motors and £1500 pounds would buy you a fine machine.
Distance. As D8 said, the bigger the battery the further you go, but it is highly variable. It's reckoned that an average rider will use 10-20Watt/Hours per mile. As you, like me, are getting on, lets assume the higher end of this consumption. So a 500Wh battery(14Ah) would give you approx. 25 miles. That's on a windy day with lots of hills and you've been in the pub all night. I've had as little as 18 miles and over 36 miles out of my 14Ah battery.

For me I have hub motors, 3 in all. I prefer their simplicity. So far they've been bullet proof. But, that too, is a very personal thing.
Enjoy choosing and try as many makes/types as you can. Most of all enjoy the e-bike grin that never fades.

 

[Danidl]

As previously said, the exact bike type is a very personal thing and you would be best to try as many as you can before parting with your hard earned retirement stash.
Where motors are concerned there are basically two configurations - hub motors and bottom bracket motors.
Bottom bracket motors drive through the bikes chain and gears. Most OEM ones are torque sense, that's to say that they give power as a proportion of what the rider puts in. So as your input declines (end of a long day?) so does the power given.
Hub motors fit in either the front or rear wheel and provide drive (normally via a 5:1 reduction box) directly to that wheel. Most bikes of Chinese origin are PAS sense. They give power when the pedals are rotated. Power is given up to the maximum of the setting you are in, does not depend on your input, except rotating the pedals.
Most bikes from European manufacturers are bottom bracket motors (although probably still mostly made in China and assembled in Europe). Price bracket will be from the higher end of your budget upwards.
Most Chinese bikes are hub motors and £1500 pounds would buy you a fine machine.
Distance. As D8 said, the bigger the battery the further you go, but it is highly variable. It's reckoned that an average rider will use 10-20Watt/Hours per mile. As you, like me, are getting on, lets assume the higher end of this consumption. So a 500Wh battery(14Ah) would give you approx. 25 miles. That's on a windy day with lots of hills and you've been in the pub all night. I've had as little as 18 miles and over 36 miles out of my 14Ah battery.

For me I have hub motors, 3 in all. I prefer their simplicity. So far they've been bullet proof. But, that too, is a very personal thing.
Enjoy choosing and try as many makes/types as you can. Most of all enjoy the e-bike grin that never fades.

Agreed. But the range from a crank motor is typically better, and in my opinion, gives a more bikelike response. There is plenty of discussion and argument about which is better and it has almost a religious cult dimension.. my preference is crank drive, and your 1800 stl would start getting into that territory.
My strategy is to start off a trip with low levels of assist on my Bosch active drive and as I progress or hit headwinds go to higher levels of assist.
There is a reason why the central European market, which is much much bigger than the UK market likes the more expensive central drive motors at 2000 euro, when workable hub motor bikes are available for about 800euro.

 

[RobF]

In the spirit of the good general advice already given, you need to have a careful think about how the bikes will be transported and stored.

Ebikes are fine to ride in poor weather, but they don't like sitting out in it.

Inevitably, cover will be at a premium in a motor home setting.

Unless your trailer has a roof, the bikes would be best roped and sheeted for those long touring trips on the motorway.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Agreed. But the range from a crank motor is typically better,

All the tests that I've done and the published results show the opposite. Torque sensing crank motors give a false impression of increased range because they make you pedal harder. Try a modern hub-motored bike yourself and you'll find little difference.

 

[Danidl]

All the tests that I've done and the published results show the opposite. Torque sensing crank motors give a false impression of increased range because they make you pedal harder. Try a modern hub-motored bike yourself and you'll find little difference.

I thought you might say something like that... But hang on increased range is an objective measurement, evenif the rider has to work slightly harder to achieve it.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

That's true, but I got 129 miles from one charge of my 500wh battery using a rear hub motor. How far can you go on yours?

 

[Danidl]

That's true, but I got 129 miles from one charge of my 500wh battery using a rear hub motor. How far can you go on yours?

Well I got 65 miles using no charge at all, but it was in the cars bike carrier at the time ... Does that count?

More seriously, on a level or undulating road, with both bikes going at their motors optimum design speeds, there will or should be nothing in range between hub and cd motors. Your argument that the simpler drive train on a hub makes it more efficient is valid. The hub motors being significantly lower in cost and is therefore the better value option . On routes where the bikes must go well below their motors optimum speed, the crank drive will outperform because it can separate road speed from motor speed. On routes where the bike is travelling above its motors optimum speed, the crank drive can outperform again for the same reason. ,.

 

[Peter Ball]

Thank you one and all for your advice and explanations, I now feel I have enough knowledge to ask for advice in a bike dealers without being fobbed off with a load of rhubarb rhubarb.
Much appreciated.