New Bike Spoke Rust - Was I expecting too much?

[CCebiker]

Hello all, I got a new Wisper bike back in February. I am recovering from long term illness and have used the bike about 10 miles a week on average, but most of that has been the summer months. I built a new shed for it and it lives in there, I rarely even leave it out anywhere, maybe a quick coffee or snack then back home.

I was surprised and disheartened to see rust on the wheels where the spokes attach (nipples?) early in the summer, but I thought maybe I was expecting too much. I tried to keep them clean and dry but they continue to get worse. I've attached photos of them after cleaning them off tonight. (Yes I have pink wheel lights on my front wheel cause I always wanted them as a kid and now I'm 40 and can do what I like haha)

Today I was waiting for my son to come out of Tesco and as I was looking at the same part on all the other bikes there, even crappy, dirty, beat up bikes, even my son's bike he uses to get to school all winter, I realised NONE of them looked like mine.

Is this a quality issue I should complain about? Is there something I'm doing wrong? Can I fix this? I wipe my bike and wheels down with a rag after using it if it's wet or dirty but I wasn't doing anything special to the wheels. I can't imagine everyone at Tesco was keeping their wheels in top shape though, and when I read about it now it seems like all modern bikes shouldn't have rusting wheels.

Any more information before I email the company would be great. I only ever had cheap bikes before I got sick, so I'm not experienced in looking after one or what to expect.

Thanks!

 

[saneagle]

Hello all, I got a new Wisper bike back in February. I am recovering from long term illness and have used the bike about 10 miles a week on average, but most of that has been the summer months. I built a new shed for it and it lives in there, I rarely even leave it out anywhere, maybe a quick coffee or snack then back home.

I was surprised and disheartened to see rust on the wheels where the spokes attach (nipples?) early in the summer, but I thought maybe I was expecting too much. I tried to keep them clean and dry but they continue to get worse. I've attached photos of them after cleaning them off tonight. (Yes I have pink wheel lights on my front wheel cause I always wanted them as a kid and now I'm 40 and can do what I like haha)

Today I was waiting for my son to come out of Tesco and as I was looking at the same part on all the other bikes there, even crappy, dirty, beat up bikes, even my son's bike he uses to get to school all winter, I realised NONE of them looked like mine.

Is this a quality issue I should complain about? Is there something I'm doing wrong? Can I fix this? I wipe my bike and wheels down with a rag after using it if it's wet or dirty but I wasn't doing anything special to the wheels. I can't imagine everyone at Tesco was keeping their wheels in top shape though, and when I read about it now it seems like all modern bikes shouldn't have rusting wheels.

Any more information before I email the company would be great. I only ever had cheap bikes before I got sick, so I'm not experienced in looking after one or what to expect.

Thanks!

I think I know what causes it, and if I'm right, there is nothing you can do other than clean it off. It's probably something to do with the three different metals in that area that effectively become a battery whenever the wheel gets wet. I think your best bet would be to contact Wisper about it. They're normally pretty helpful.

Although aluminium rims, brass nipples and zinc plated spokes are corrosion resistant, when you connect either aluminium or zinc to the brass (copper in it) with dirty water from the road, you get electrolysis, which causes rapid corrosion. Effectively, you've made a battery. You can test if that's the problem by making the wheel wet with rain-water, then measuring the voltage between the rim and the nipple, and the spoke and the nipple. Any measurable voltage shows that's what's going on. Salt water is even worse.

I think I remember somebody else with the same problem fairly recently. Maybe whoever built the wheels used the wrong type of nipples or spokes. I'm going to guess that you have zinc plated spokes.

 

[CCebiker]

Thank you very much, that's actually so interesting! I would be surprised if Wisper used worse quality parts than my son's battered Halfords cheapie bike, so this makes more sense. Although it's not so exciting when it's happening with my bike. I will give them an email tomorrow and see what they say.

 

[AntonyC]

Cheap galv spokes turn patchy grey and nobody minds. ICBW but at this rate it looks as though corrosion both outside and inside could make these hard to adjust, I'd definitely show them to Wisper.
(Our posts crossed)

 

[piratepete]

Hello all, I got a new Wisper bike back in February. I am recovering from long term illness and have used the bike about 10 miles a week on average, but most of that has been the summer months. I built a new shed for it and it lives in there, I rarely even leave it out anywhere, maybe a quick coffee or snack then back home.

I was surprised and disheartened to see rust on the wheels where the spokes attach (nipples?) early in the summer, but I thought maybe I was expecting too much. I tried to keep them clean and dry but they continue to get worse. I've attached photos of them after cleaning them off tonight. (Yes I have pink wheel lights on my front wheel cause I always wanted them as a kid and now I'm 40 and can do what I like haha)

Today I was waiting for my son to come out of Tesco and as I was looking at the same part on all the other bikes there, even crappy, dirty, beat up bikes, even my son's bike he uses to get to school all winter, I realised NONE of them looked like mine.

Is this a quality issue I should complain about? Is there something I'm doing wrong? Can I fix this? I wipe my bike and wheels down with a rag after using it if it's wet or dirty but I wasn't doing anything special to the wheels. I can't imagine everyone at Tesco was keeping their wheels in top shape though, and when I read about it now it seems like all modern bikes shouldn't have rusting wheels.

Any more information before I email the company would be great. I only ever had cheap bikes before I got sick, so I'm not experienced in looking after one or what to expect.

Thanks!

My chinese built hub motor wheel looked like that after its first winter.

 

[Brik]

We need to see the bike at night with the lights on.

 

[CCebiker]

We need to see the bike at night with the lights on.

Aw I would love to but I only really got a chance to use them my first few week in Feb. I'm in bed too early to be out in the dark yet haha. Maybe in another month!

 

[warlord0]

You are not alone in this. I bought a Wisper 806 and the spokes and rim were shocking. In the end I replaced all spokes, nipples and rims at a not inconsiderable price of £250. Sapim e-strong spokes, brass nipples and Ryde andra 40 rims.

Wheel Building Help

I need some advice on getting my wheels rebuilt. I'm not rebuilding myself, I don't have the skill. The wheels on my Wisper 806 are in a shocking state. I've only had it 6 months (ok, it was an ex-demo) and they are very badly corroded and have had regular spoke failures. To the extent that on...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

I tend to agree with the dissimilar metals causing a reaction. My spokes certainly looked like that was what was going on between steel nipples and aluminium.

In the end, I suffered a catastrophic day when I had 3 broken spokes, and it was time to replace the rims. The join on the rim was also coming through the power coat.

Only replaced it all 2/3 weeks ago, so it's early days, but this bike is now how it should have been.

 

[warlord0]

Thank you very much, that's actually so interesting! I would be surprised if Wisper used worse quality parts than my son's battered Halfords cheapie bike, so this makes more sense. Although it's not so exciting when it's happening with my bike. I will give them an email tomorrow and see what they say.

As for the cheap parts, well there are some cheap parts on there. Once you get stripping some stuff back, you find that Aliexpress has the parts you need and are indeed very cheap.

Some of the stuff I started replacing was also the socket head (allen) screws and wheel nuts with titanium alloy version, as they too had become rusty. Also blued the steel washers and parts I couldn't source in titanium, to give them some slight corrosion resistance.

 

[CCebiker]

You are not alone in this. I bought a Wisper 806 and the spokes and rim were shocking. In the end I replaced all spokes, nipples and rims at a not inconsiderable price of £250. Sapim e-strong spokes, brass nipples and Ryde andra 40 rims.

Wheel Building Help

I need some advice on getting my wheels rebuilt. I'm not rebuilding myself, I don't have the skill. The wheels on my Wisper 806 are in a shocking state. I've only had it 6 months (ok, it was an ex-demo) and they are very badly corroded and have had regular spoke failures. To the extent that on...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

I tend to agree with the dissimilar metals causing a reaction. My spokes certainly looked like that was what was going on between steel nipples and aluminium.

In the end, I suffered a catastrophic day when I had 3 broken spokes, and it was time to replace the rims. The join on the rim was also coming through the power coat.

Only replaced it all 2/3 weeks ago, so it's early days, but this bike is now how it should have been.

Wow thank you for this. I was wondering how it's possible that I'm the only person saying this online, I tried to find more posts about it last night. Whether it's cheap parts or the wrong parts, I can't be the only one. And the fact I'm in Scotland in a humid environment shouldn't make a difference since these bikes are made and marketed for use in the UK.

Now that you mention it, I also have rusty screws already on various areas of my bike. I will need to go check this out.

I got a first reply from Wisper today, saying not to worry, that they will replace my spokes, and asking where I keep my bike. I'm hopeful that they will arrange an appropriate solution that addresses the root cause (for example, if it's mixed metals it will need to be done correctly to avoid the situation in future) but also look at the production of all their bikes. This shouldn't be happening within weeks of getting a £3000 bike.

I'm also a bit wary of them asking where I keep the bike. Maybe I'm just being overly skeptical and they are doing it for their own information but I'll be really upset if they try to blame me for it. It stays in a shed all the time but even if I was taking it to work daily or using it much more, this shouldn't be happening. The more I've learned about this issue, the more I realise it's really something Wisper should not have had happen in the first place.

 

[warlord0]

Wisper support are very good, in my experience. For me, a little slow to step up on the rusty rims. I bought it as an ex-demo @ 40% off, and kind of put it down to not knowing the real age of the bike. But I have only had it since February.

I had some initial issues they resolved. So, rest assured, they will help. But don't be afraid to chase them up.

For me, replacement spokes were just a real pain. I bought my own replacements, based on measuring a broken one, and over time, going through fitting 5 myself (and I'm a noob) I wasn't sure if I was only making things worse as I have no experience it how tight they should be, or if I was keeping the wheel round and straight.

I then found a local bike mechanic and let him supply and fit the spokes to the rims I bought. Trying to calculate the spoke lengths was frying my brain. At £250 it was a lot of money, but I don't regret it. I should probably have pursued Wisper warranty over it, and I suggest you do. My bike is used 3 days a week for commuting, being without it costs me time and money, so I just got it sorted.

 

[warlord0]

PS. My bike is kept in the kitchen at home, and in a bike shelter when using it for work - wooden slats with roof, so secure, but exposed to some of the elements, as in cold and damp, but not direct rain.

 

[Benjahmin]

There will always be a galvanic reaction between two disimilar metals and that's worse in a salty damp enviroment.
Aluminium to steel is one of the worst. Galvanised steel helps but it's much better with stainless steel.
Rims are pretty much all aluminium these days, so I would use stainless steel spokes with either ss or brass nipples.

 

[thelarkbox]

I wonder might a quick brush round with an old toothbrush and some brasso turn what looks like brown rust back into golden shiney brass? if so a quick wipe over with an oily rag may shield the nipples from tarnishing quite the same way again so quickly??

While it may look like rust its not as the nipples are brass with a chrome platting, but the nipples all look like they suffered damage to their thin platting when fitted. and where the platting has flaked off the revealed yellow brass has tarnished brown..

So cleaning up the brass and shielding with a film of oil may well remove the unsightly brown stains that pull on your eyes, and provide you with silver/golden sniney wheel/spoke nipples you can be proud of..

 

[warlord0]

I don't think the original nipples were brass, they were chrome plated and the plating not enough to keep the rust away. I did exactly what you suggested, but with a different metal polish. The rust didn't go, other than some surface rust. I thought of using grease, or chain lube rather than oil, as a few puddles washes it away. But mine were too far gone.

With mine, the rear spokes were coming loose, no idea if they'd stretched. There was no way of adjusting most of them, as the nipples were corroded onto the spokes. Over time that saw them ticking worse, and worse, until they'd fail.

 

[thelarkbox]

Yikes!! the bargain basement spoke set amazon sold me for just over a tenner delivered came with soft brass plated nipples that if not caught correctly in my naff multi-size spoke spanner were easily de-plated..
(still not as bad looking as OP's 1 yr on..) And i checked my other bikes too as soon as reading the initial post in this thread..

If @CCebiker can loosen a single nipple, then removing a spoke for sizing should be a doddle (post wheel n tyre removal)- I found sizing the spokes i needed for my wheel a REAL CHALLANGE! but i had a new different size rim and other complications...

Replacing spokes or just the nipples 1 by 1 while tedious isnt a great challenge and although its considered a dark art - balancing-true-ing a wheel can be easily demystified with the aid of a 5-10 minute you tube video


And while the pros have special tools for everything. all you need is your bike on its back with the empty front forks available as a wheel rest, a comfy stool to sit at an appropriate height (cushion on a upturned bucket worked for me), a pair of scissors, a couple of cable ties and a spoke spanner. your first wheel may take upto an hour to get perfect.. my first attempt i totally forgot to check roundness and only trued the rim left to right - but that took no time to sort out but the first test ride was 'an experience'

You cant really break anything and can always backtrack and restart from any point.

So if OP has the time and inclination (Both are required) and if removing the wheel and tyre in preparation hold no difficulty or problems then the spoke replacement is an easier if time consuming task.

 

[CCebiker]

Thanks for the feedback and information on this. I would do this myself but I'm currently still disabled due to my condition (that my bike is definitely helping me improve overall) so it would be quite a lot of work to redo the wheels. I could try to get a friend or partner to learn to do it but since the bike is so new and not heavily used, I'd like to see what wisper are going to do first.

 

[CCebiker]

I wonder might a quick brush round with an old toothbrush and some brasso turn what looks like brown rust back into golden shiney brass? if so a quick wipe over with an oily rag may shield the nipples from tarnishing quite the same way again so quickly??

While it may look like rust its not as the nipples are brass with a chrome platting, but the nipples all look like they suffered damage to their thin platting when fitted. and where the platting has flaked off the revealed yellow brass has tarnished brown..

So cleaning up the brass and shielding with a film of oil may well remove the unsightly brown stains that pull on your eyes, and provide you with silver/golden sniney wheel/spoke nipples you can be proud of..

I've used oil in the past to try to slow down the corrosion/rust, however as someone pointed out above, it's now also inside of the nipple, so I worry about it not just in an aesthetic level. Seeing the post from @warlord0 about spokes eventually breaking too, means I wouldn't want to just buff it up, ignoring the corrosion on the inside.

 

[guerney]

Yikes!! the bargain basement spoke set amazon sold me for just over a tenner delivered came with soft brass plated nipples that if not caught correctly in my naff multi-size spoke spanner were easily de-plated..

I prefer brass nipples (on wheels) because brass is self-lubricating... therefore if you or someone else has introduced a potentially problematic twist to the spoke while tensioning, that will be worked out while riding. Even nickel plated brass nipples will do this because in use, the extremely thin plating will be abraded away by contact with the rim.

 

[saneagle]

I prefer brass nipples (on wheels) because brass is self-lubricating... therefore if you or someone else has introduced a potentially problematic twist to the spoke while tensioning, that will be worked out while riding. Even nickel plated brass nipples will do this because in use, the extremely thin plating will be abraded away by contact with the rim.

As I already said, you shouldn't use brass nipples on bright zinc plated spokes. If you had to, you should use a corrosion inhibitor, like Duralac, in the threads. Copper and zinc make a battery. Didn't you do that experiment at school with a copper nail and a zinc galvanised one in a jar of water to make a battery, then you put a bit of salt in and watch the voltage climb higher? Brass nipples on stainless spokes is OK, , brass on black japanned is OK, and so IS aluminium nipples on zinc plated ones - just not brass and zinc.

There's nothing to say that it's what OP has. Only he and Wisper know, but if you look on other bike forums, you see loads of cases because most people don't know basic metallurgy. You should never have brass and zinc together on anything that's going to get wet.