New battery already

[aroncox]

I do want to say that I don't really blame 50Cycles for any of this. they could have fixed some other issues I had in the past a bit quicker, but they've been pretty good. My motor completely stopped work a couple of weeks ago and they've now put a bran-new one on (extended warranty) which is great. It too a month of to and froing of emails, but it was fixed.

It's really all the new technology involved in an electric bike that's the issue. When I bought it I thought there may be early adopter issues, but I optimistically hoped there weren't. I guess I was wrong (especially about the Lithium battery). With any luck 10 years from now there'll be loads of electric bikes on the street and they'll be as reliable as regular bikes.

 

[Ian]

As far as I know the 50cycles website has always claimed approx 500 cycles as being the expected life of the battery, I regard that as optimistic but in this case you have probably achieved that with daily use for 18 months.

 

[Bikerbob]

I have to say that while NiMh batteries seem better than Lithium they still have limitations. My Giant Suede is just two years old and the NiMh battery, which used to give about 25 miles in hilly country when new, now manages 8 to 10 miles, and I have to give it a top-up charge just before setting off to achieve that. I ordered a new one 15 weeks ago - when Giant UK gave 5 weeks delivery - and despite the best efforts of my local dealer I'm still waiting. I'm afraid that at present there just isn't a truly satisfactory solution.

 

[bersh]

EZEE Quando II and LI battery

When I purchased from NYCE Wheels in New York City, June of 2007, I was told that the NIMH batteries were being replaced by LI, and that is why I should not consider the NI battery. In previous posts I have implied that the dealer should have told me that San Francisco with its serious hills was not an appropriate place to use this bicycle. And even though they knew I was going to ship it there, they failed to warn me. Even worse was that they waited two months and then printed up and gave me a document that for the first time stated that running the bike battery for more than 3 seconds unassisted would damage the battery. The only reason I was able to get this printout was because I returned the battery for retesting to see why it failed in the middle of a hill. I do not want to believe that this dealer deliberately sold me an electric bicycle that was inappropriate for where I was going to use it. But buyer beware! In a flat area, like New York City, this bicycle might be very good on a long term basis. I am worried, like others in this site, that the LI battery will be useless soon, and then I will have to find a more affordable way to go.

 

[flecc]

I have to say that while NiMh batteries seem better than Lithium they still have limitations. My Giant Suede is just two years old and the NiMh battery, which used to give about 25 miles in hilly country when new, now manages 8 to 10 miles, and I have to give it a top-up charge just before setting off to achieve that. I ordered a new one 15 weeks ago - when Giant UK gave 5 weeks delivery - and despite the best efforts of my local dealer I'm still waiting. I'm afraid that at present there just isn't a truly satisfactory solution.

That is unusually bad for an NiMh Bob. If it gave 25 miles at first, I'd expect 18 miles at two years old. What you are getting suggests a battery that was substandard or a charging system not well matched to the battery. However I favour the battery being at fault, the need to top up the charge before setting off being a symptom of cells not retaining their charge as they should.

A Giant Lafree Twist would not have anything like that loss of range, and at four years old I easily got over 8 miles on a 5 speed bike that gave 17 miles when new in the same hilly territory. I'd regard that halving of range at four years as normal, so something is clearly wrong on that Suede. My oldest eZee NiMh battery at almost a year and a half is showing no signs of a loss of range greater than I had on the Giant Lafree batteries.

I certainly agree that Giant's support for their discontinued e-bikes is bad, and I would never buy another or recommend anyone else to do so, given their couldn't care attitude and ridiculously high prices for parts.

I think NiMh batteries are a completely satisfactory solution for most users where they are available, and that's the experience of many of us. I think either you've just been unlucky with that Suede one, or Giant foolishly economised with the battery specification on that budget price bike.
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[chuck]

suede battery problem

I have to say that while NiMh batteries seem better than Lithium they still have limitations. My Giant Suede is just two years old and the NiMh battery, which used to give about 25 miles in hilly country when new, now manages 8 to 10 miles, and I have to give it a top-up charge just before setting off to achieve that. I ordered a new one 15 weeks ago - when Giant UK gave 5 weeks delivery - and despite the best efforts of my local dealer I'm still waiting. I'm afraid that at present there just isn't a truly satisfactory solution.

My Giant Suede is just 9 months old (beginning of February) and the NiMh battery now manages 8 miles only (since one month), and I have to cut off twice the switch to let the battery take a rest (mainly when climbing the short but sloped hill to my home) not to be out of power...
The dealer sent my battery to Giant who opened it and agrees the warranty will work, but he tells that the new battery should be delivered by december (about 3 months to wait).
In "Cyclurba" French forum, we're about 7 people with the same problem.
One got an answer from Giant France who told him that they know about the problem, that we have to wait 2 months for the new battery (waiting for customs somewhere) to come, but that this battery will not be the ones they plan to improve...

 

[Bikerbob]

Thanks for that Chuck. So it seems that Suede batteries have a known problem and it isn't just mine.

I wrote to Giant UK last week to ask about the situation and one of their people did have the decency to phone me today. I wish I had seen your post before he called! He said that they confidently expect a delivery in early December and that there is another delivery scheduled after that one. Mine is apparently supposed to arrive at my local dealer on 12th December! He seemed to believe it, and I hope he is right, but based on my experience so far I won't be holding my breath. He suggested that they 'might be able to do something for me on the price because of the inconvenience'. I thought he was being generous but maybe it was because they know the batteries are not up to standard. From what you say the new one will have the same shortcoming. (Not good at £200 a go). The fact that there is this demand only two years after the Suede was introduced is another indicator that the batteries are failing early.

 

[flecc]

I think my guess that the Suede battery cells could be lower quality for that budget bike could well be correct.

Giant's 20 cell high quality battery for the twist series is £250, and even six years ago cost £200. The fact that the current Suede price is only £200 for 30 cells seems to indicate cost cutting.
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[Bikerbob]

I'm sure you are right, flecc. It had occurred to me that if they want to remedy this problem all they have to do is use better quality cells, but no doubt they are working to a price.

 

[alex]

NIMH for sram sparc

I picked up my second battery from my local bike shop today & hope it will be a very long time before I need to buy any more batteries. I now have two new 16V batteries each capable of 16 to 18 miles & each weighing 2.7kg so carrying both is not too burdensome if required. Fully discharging each battery in turn should not be too inconvenient so I hope to get long life from both of them. The Sram literature claims that 200- 300 charges should be possible depending on user behaviour, I will log my charges & see if I can get to 300. I hope performance will be better than others in this thread have reported. Does anyone know if there is much variation in quality of NiMh batteries, are there alot of duff ones out there? I am reassured that both my batteries arrived with a sticker attesting to the date of the last factory charge & they are both 'fresh'. Will they have been made in Germany (Sram is a German co. I believe) & if so does that mean quality will be any better than some from the Far East. Cost was 125 pounds for the new spare so at least if I do need to replace sooner than 300 charges I can get 2 batteries for the price of one Torq battery.

 

[Ian]

The quoted 200-300 charge cycles sounds quite conservative and I should think perfectly achievable with reasonable care, the main points being to charge the batteries periodically during long periods out of use, and to ensure the batteries are almost fully discharged occasionally.
I would very much doubt the batteries are made in Germany, in common with most manufactured goods virtually all rechargeable batteries are made in China, even those from quality non-Chinese companies such as Sony & LG.

 

[flecc]

SRAM was formerly the German company Sachs, this taken over by an American company and renamed. As Ian says, China is used as the workshop, but SRAM standards still reflect their German heritage and base, and are very high.

My guess is that those Sparc batteries will be to a good standard and probably perform beyond the specification.
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