Need some advice

[SexyHyde]

OK, so after nearly a year I have blown my BBS02B controller and the replacement has got "lost in the post", and I need to stop using the car.

After doing all my research before buying, I settled on mid drives being better, but I honestly hate the maintenance / fixing / replacing the chain and gears. I mainly commute through the city, it's 90% flat, I drive in all weather and I want it low maintenance.

I figure a 48v (I have a 48v battery), rear hub drive, around 1-1.5Kw will be a good replacement for the 750w BBS02B.

So should I just replace the BBS02 controller, silicone it up and restrict it to save drive chain wear, or should I go rear hub (any recommendations welcomed)?

 

[Benjahmin]

A hub motor will, as you say, put no strain on the chain etc. They are generally pretty bullet proof for commutting, if fitted correctly. You have to make sure that, as the cable exits the hub spindle, it has a downward drip loop before going up the frame.
A 1-1.5Kw motor will be a direct drive and, as well as being obviously illegal (they are physically big lumps), will be crap at stop/start driving and hill climbing. It will put a heavy load on the battery wasting a lot of energy as heat.
You would be better with a legal motor (marked 250w) but, coupled with a suitable controller, will still give you 6-700w at the wheel. If you run a 36v motor at 48v you will get approx. 30% more speed and torque.
Most of the problems posted on these forums seem to be related to mid drives. Now that's either 'cause there are more of them or because they are intrinsically more problematic.
I am biased, I have 3 hubs and in thousands of miles riding have had no problems, apart from having to replace cooked connectors on the Ezee.

 

[Nealh]

You don't need a 1kw D/D hub motor for commuting, it is as bad an idea as using a BBS02/mid drive.
For flat commuting a geared hub is perfect, look at Woosh 250w hub kits or opt for AKM 100c or AKM128c.

 

[KirstinS]

Completely agree with above. My hub equipped bike is preferred for my flat commute over my bbs02b equipped bike

A 1kw direct drive hub will be horrible for this use

 

[KirstinS]

Another option for you

Keep the mid drive and tune it down to about 18a

And then get an alfine 8 hub. This combo has done me proud for 9000 miles. 3 chains and 3 rear sprockets worth of cost (about a tenner each so 60 quid wear costs)

Change gears when still too. Great for traffic/city

Alfine hubs you can double tap /skip gears easily too. I often do that as the motor accelerates or I come to a steep hill. The more usual derailleur setups don't really skipping gears like this

 

[SexyHyde]

Another option for you

Keep the mid drive and tune it down to about 18a

And then get an alfine 8 hub. This combo has done me proud for 9000 miles. 3 chains and 3 rear sprockets worth of cost (about a tenner each so 60 quid wear costs)

Change gears when still too. Great for traffic/city

Alfine hubs you can double tap /skip gears easily too. I often do that as the motor accelerates or I come to a steep hill. The more usual derailleur setups don't really skipping gears like this

I did look into getting a IGH wheel built at my local bike shop, but he'd rather just fix punctures it seems. I even started watching videos on how to build my own wheels but as I want to use it daily as a car replacement I'd rather it was done properly.

Why do people recommend 250w? Id rather have more power and restrict it back than running something over its max rated. The bbs02 controller set on fire because it runs too close to its max limit.

 

[Woosh]

Why do people recommend 250w?

beside being road legal, the motor can dissipate the amount of heat generated when your cadence drops.
When you ride with a BBS02, you may climb a hill with a low cadence/in a wrong gear.
If the cadence drops to 30rpm, the motor yield drops below 50%, more than 50% of your battery will turn into heat inside the motor, cooking your controller.
50% of 15A controller is OK for a 250W BBS01 to dissipate.
50% of 48V 25A = too much heat, even when the motor has extra large fins.

 

[SexyHyde]

beside being road legal, the motor can dissipate the amount of heat generated when your cadence drops.
When you ride with a BBS02, you may climb a hill with a low cadence/in a wrong gear.
If the cadence drops to 30rpm, the motor yield drops below 50%, more than 50% of your battery will turn into heat inside the motor, cooking your controller.
50% of 15A controller is OK for a 250W BBS01 to dissipate.
50% of 48V 25A = too much heat, even when the motor has extra large fins.

That's why I was thinking of restricting the amps to keep everything in check. I had just speed restricted the motor before, but now I know restricting the amps would have been better.

I honestly don't care about the road legal side, as I think it's a joke and severely stopping people from considering going ebike, probably because they can get more tax revenue from electric car sales. I'd rather restrict it back and have some room to grow if the law changes, than have to buy a whole new kit.

 

[Nealh]

Pedelecs are inshrined in law UK/EU &mostly world wide, the UK caters for non pedelecs bike with the light moped class for ebikes. These basic considerations won't change.

 

[SexyHyde]

Pedelecs are inshrined in law UK/EU &mostly world wide, the UK caters for non pedelecs bike with the light moped class for ebikes. These basic considerations won't change.

I used to work in and with most aspects of law for a decade.
The UK law is one of the most restrictive limits with regards e bikes.
The politicians that pass the law, didn't spend any amount of time going through all the different speeds, limits and restrictions. one person said something and the few others there made a noise.
The light moped classification is based on petrol motors, a lot of things don't apply to electric motors on bicycles.
We have had brexit and a few elections happening, so there hasn't really been time to revisit ebike law/rules over the last 3 years.
I had my bike limited to 25mph as that is a much safer speed when travelling in traffic, on the road, like you are supposed to. Theres a guy on a "legal" ebike and he tears it up on the path which I personally regard as way more unsafe.
The fastest I have been on my bike was 39mph and that was on leg power alone.
Roads have a max limit in this country of 70mph, yet the only top end limits on cars, are 155mph on top end sports / super cars.

I will abide by the law when it isn't so restrictive and a hindrance to the uptake of ebikes. No one (from the masses) is spending £3k+ for a decent purpose built ebike that cuts out at 15.5mph. Everything under £3k is
just a bike with a kit on that you can do for way cheaper yourself. The uptake of ebikes in the UK compared to the EU mainland shows this quite convincingly.

Like I said, being exactly law compliant isn't something that bothers me, I trust in myself that I will ride sensibly, I will limit the bike to around 25mph (I drive for a large section on a 40mph road and then a 40mph dual carriageway). I vary my speed according to where I'm riding too, I'm not going 25mph when I'm cycling around with my 7 year old on his bmx.

 

[Woosh]

Like I said, being exactly law compliant isn't something that bothers me, I trust in myself that I will ride sensibly, I will limit the bike to around 25mph (I drive for a large section on a 40mph road and then a 40mph dual carriageway). I vary my speed according to where I'm riding too, I'm not going 25mph when I'm cycling around with my 7 year old on his bmx.

Posts about going over 15mph should be in the speed pedelecs section of the forum.

Speed Pedelecs General Discussion

Discussions concerning speed pedelecs, motor propulsion beyond 15mph or maximum power outputs above 250w, or e-bikes being used in other countries.

www.pedelecs.co.uk

 

[Deleted member 25121]

I will abide by the law when it isn't so restrictive and a hindrance to the uptake of ebikes. No one (from the masses) is spending £3k+ for a decent purpose built ebike that cuts out at 15.5mph. Everything under £3k is
just a bike with a kit on that you can do for way cheaper yourself. The uptake of ebikes in the UK compared to the EU mainland shows this quite convincingly.

The EU has the same laws regarding ebikes, I can't see what your point is.

 

[Nealh]

Though tonight 23.00hrs we will be leaving , pedelecs law will remain as the status quo, faster bikes or higher powered bikes have been catered for so OP is relying on change that isn't going to happen.
The Mayor of London/TFL are putting the use of scooters under the lime light but again any change will have to go through parliament and have legislation to be legally used on the roads, pavement use has to be a NO NO with there current 20mph+ speeds they can achieve does not mix at all well with pedestrians.

 

[SexyHyde]

Have you seen any videos and stories of getting it registered? You think this is the best it will ever be? Do you think it's good for uptake of ebikes? For sure tell people what the rules are but I'm a grown ass man. If 38mph is fine under leg power what's the big deal about 25mph with electric and leg power?

 

[Wicky]

but I'm a grown ass man

Bottom line of where it can land you...

Cyclist accused of killing pedestrian by hitting her on electric bike

Thomas Hanlon (pictured leaving court today) from London is charged with count of causing death by careless driving, causing death while uninsured and causing death while unlicensed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[soundwave]

A cyclist appeared at the Old Bailey today accused of killing a pedestrian after crashing into her on his E-bike in the first case of its kind.

but thats a lie she RAN in to the middle of the road and crashed in to him so this charge will be for the non road legal ebike.

if he goes down it wont be for very long you watch

 

[Woosh]

Do you think it's good for uptake of ebikes?

there is no law against electric motorbikes and there is the concesssion for EN15194 pedelecs to use cyclepaths and roads without insurance and riders without helmet.
The problem only arises when you want your electric motorbike to have the same concession, ie ride your electric motorbike without number plate, insurance and helmet.

 

[Nealh]

A cyclist appeared at the Old Bailey today accused of killing a pedestrian after crashing into her on his E-bike in the first case of its kind.

but thats a lie she RAN in to the middle of the road and crashed in to him so this charge will be for the non road legal ebike.

if he goes down it wont be for very long you watch

The fixie bloke got 18 months for killing a women on his illegal non powered bike because it had no brakes, the guy who hit the women was in all respects riding a moped unlicensed/registered he might get 2 - 3 years I reckon. Also video evidence shoes him doing a runner with his smashed bike, even ignoring a member of the public trying to stop him doing so.
The guy who injured a women in London when she ran out in front of him sued him and it cost him £100k in damages and lawyer fees.

 

[soundwave]

The fixie bloke got 18 months for killing a women on his illegal non powered bike because it had no brakes, the guy who hit the women was in all respects riding a moped unlicensed/registered he might get 2 - 3 years I reckon. Also video evidence shoes him doing a runner with his smashed bike, even ignoring a member of the public trying to stop him doing so.
The guy who injured a women in London when she ran out in front of him sued him and it cost him £100k in damages and lawyer fees.

and if i go get a chain saw from b+q and start chopping ppl up id get life in prison fkn good job terrorists are stupid plenty of tanks for sale

 

[SexyHyde]

That guy will get most of his sentence for fleeing the scene and they'll go after him more for everything because he tried to escape justice. Like I said I worked in the field for a decade, I know how it works.