Need help choosing between these bikes

[Woosh]

What I'm ultimately trying to determine is if a crank motor will mean that I have to pedal too hard up the hills near me. The predictor on your website shows my journey as the following:

the amount of pedaling when you hit the steepest segment of the hill is the same, for a bike with crank drive or hub drive.
If the motor can give at most 500W mechanical power (typical for a bike fitted with 17A controller), then that will be the same either with crank or hub motor.
On a bike with hub motor, you have to maintain a minimum speed of 8mph not to cook the motor, that limits the gradients to about 12%. However, CD motors can leverage on your gears to optimise speed and heat loss.
On a bike with crank motor, you figure out which gear is best for a gradient in seconds, the bike slows down when you shift gear in the wrong direction.

 

[TheBag]

the amount of pedaling when you hit the steepest segment of the hill is the same, for a bike with crank drive or hub drive.
If the motor can give at most 500W mechanical power (typical for a bike fitted with 17A controller), then that will be the same either with crank or hub motor.
On a bike with hub motor, you have to maintain a minimum speed of 8mph not to cook the motor, that limits the gradients to about 12%. However, CD motors can leverage on your gears to optimise speed and heat loss.
On a bike with crank motor, you figure out which gear is best for a gradient in seconds, the bike slows down when you shift gear in the wrong direction.

Good to know, so based on this and my journey data I posted, I'm assuming you would also recommend a crank motor rather than a hub?

 

[Woosh]

the elevation is only 90m. Although a small section of it is very steep, it's not much for an e-bike.
I think you would still be better off with the Rio MTB because it suits slow pedallers a lot more.
The Krieger is also due for revision this year.

 

[TheBag]

the elevation is only 90m. Although a small section of it is very steep, it's not much for an e-bike.
I think you would still be better off with the Rio MTB because it suits slow pedallers a lot more.
The Krieger is also due for revision this year.

I don't know how fast I'd be pedalling honestly. I'm not in terrible shape, I just haven't cycled for a long time. The rio was in my original list but after all of this discussion, if I actually enjoy cycling and want to do more than just my commute, it seems like getting a crank motor is a little more "future proof".

It sounds like I'm going to want the new Krieger when it comes out, just like when I was originally considering the Karoo, someone from Woosh showed me a screenshot of the new one which comes out this summer and it looked so much nicer but I don't want to wait

 

[TheBag]

Right, I'm going to make a decision tomorrow I think - Want to try and cycle this weekend so if anyone has any other advice they can give me, please let me know

 

[Chris M]

I would have thought a crank motor gives you more chance of being able to pedal in a way that is comfortable for you while getting as much assistance as you want from the motor.

You may well be over-thinking this. I have a Cube Acid allroad with a Bosch Active Line Plus crank drive and it just works very well and I love it; I am sure all ebikers would say the same about their steeds no matter what the set up. Riding mine feels quite natural and like riding a normal bike. I use the gears less than on a normal bike but pedal in the same way. Its just so much easier and you feel like you are much stronger than ever before. Remember you can choose how much assistance you have from the motor so as hills get steeper you can change to a lower gear and increase the motor assistance level.

The thing I love about an ebike is that you know you will always have enough energy to get to where you are going, unless you forgot to charge the battery.

 

[Nealh]

Torque drive crank (or hub but not many) are ok if you have the fitness or stamina.
If you get tired then your job is made that much harder esp if you like to ride longer distance of 60-100 miles.

 

[TheBag]

I definitely don't have to worry about those distances just yet. I think I will at most be riding 10-20 miles if I decide to use the bike for more than just the commute.

I think I'm settled on a crank motor which makes it between:
Cube Acid Hybrid One 400 29er 2019 - Electric Mountain Bike
Haibike SDURO Cross 1.0 700c 2019 - Electric Hybrid Bike
Woosh Krieger

Of course other options are still welcome but if anyone has any objective preferences for these, i'd really appreciate some help.

 

[Amoto65]

I think if you can narrow it down to a local dealer who has one of these in stock, just in case of any problems, then you have nailed it....

 

[TheBag]

I think if you can narrow it down to a local dealer who has one of these in stock, just in case of any problems, then you have nailed it....

I was just going to order one online... if worst comes to worst, i will travel a bit of distance to get it fixed if it breaks but i expect I will be able to fix most things myself. Despite my novice knowledge of some specific details of bicycle physics, I do have a kind of engineering background from a previous life and I generally fix most things myself. There are far fewer and less complicated parts in these bicycles than there are in some of the other things I've fixed or built over the years.

 

[Amoto65]

It is not the cycle parts I was thinking about but the electrics as many warranties are voided if the motor is tampered with.

 

[TheBag]

If the motor fails and is still under warranty, I will just take it somewhere to be fixed under the warranty. Maybe I'm being a bit naive but as I live so close to London and also am very accessible to other areas being almost on the M25, I'm not too worried finding somewhere to get a big name manufactured bike fixed. Don't worry about embarrassing me - please tell me if it's foolish.

 

[Amoto65]

So why not buy from a shop where you can try some out? unless it is the Woosh which would be mail order.

 

[TheBag]

More than anything, I don't really have the time for at least a few months. I have no free weekends until mid July and work fairly long hours with a young baby at home. I'll happily sacrifice a little overall satisfaction and even money for the convenience of ordering one online and getting to use it for the upcoming summer months.

It's part of the reason the community here is so valuable to me for helping me make a decision although I fully accept that there is personal preference involved. I actually have a decent gap today for lunch so I might see if I can get to a bike shop and if I can't test some bikes out, I can at least talk through some details and see them in person.

 

[Amoto65]

Well good luck whichever decision you make and keep us all informed on what you buy.

 

[Nealh]

Bosch dealers are not one for all franchise stop shop and won't instigate a repair if you not buy your bike from them without charging you for labour minimum.

 

[Chris M]

I really like the 29er wheels on my Acid. I didn’t think larger wheels would make much noticeable difference but going from a 26in to a 29er was quite a revolation. Much more stable and comfortable. The tyres are fine both on and off road. They probably have more rolling resistance on the road than a 700 because the 29ers are wider but with the motor that doesn’t matter. They will almost certainly be better than a 700 on trails. The 700c and 29er wheels are the same diameter but usually 29er tyres are wider than 700s

 

[TheBag]

Bosch dealers are not one for all franchise stop shop and won't instigate a repair if you not buy your bike from them without charging you for labour minimum.

again, maybe I'm just being naive here but surely if the bosch motor fails and it's under warranty, they have an obligation to fix it for free? Are you saying that they may charge to remove it from the bike to diagnose, fix or replace the part?

 

[Amoto65]

The dealer you bought it off has an obligation, but not just any bike shop and usually the engines are sent back to Bosch.

 

[TheBag]

I looked at a couple of bikes at a really good boutique store near oxford circus at lunch time today. I didn't have time to test any but discussed a whole bunch of options and aside from still being set on a mid drive motor, I really like the look of the haibikes and learned a little about the different bosch motors at the same time.

What is the general view on buying last years models?

I saw this bike https://www.leisurewheels.co.uk/m12b0s184p19822/CUBE-Cross-Hybrid-Pro-400-2018 which has a "Bosch Drive Unit Performance CX (75Nm) Cruise (250Watt)" motor and looks better than pretty much everything else I have seen at that price (I have found one available for £1350).

How do you think this compares to the similar Haibikes, Cubes in this price range?