NEC Cycle Show,24-27 september

[Croxden]

Croxden, just out of interest which Motor does your R&M Rohloff have, is it the it the 50nm or 60nm model, I guess the 75nm version was not around when you got the bike.

Also what size Rear Sprocket is being used, and is the Motor Sprocket std size, not found out what Bosch use yet, but I guess it's quite small maybe 18T.

Sorry for hi jacking the post folks, but I feel a Rohloff Ebike self build comming on!

Rear sprocket is 16 teeth, not sure of the motor but doesn't have the torque the Haibike has. Nicer to ride though.

 

[Artstu]

Given that crank drive e-bikes are very heavy on chains and that small front chain ring I'd take this solution any day. To my eyes it looks much better than the way KTM do it.

 

[Rohloffboy]

Had a look at the R&M website, and they are now using the Bosch 75nm CX Motor, which I thought would now be the case, as the Rohloff is good for 100nm Torque.

I like the look of the KTM, very clean lines, but can't bring myself to buy a bike that still uses Square Taper for the Cranks, what were they thinking when they designed that Yamaha Motor.

Bosch got that right using the ISIS interface for cranks.

Can't be doing with Rim Brakes either, even if they are Hydraulic, and those Horizontal Drop-Out's look positively prehistoric, so that's the KTM ruled out, nice try though.



Will definitely be going for the Bosch 75nm CX Motor, when I come to get my HardTail Ebike, it's just a pity that I will have to use the Chain Tentioner, in order to fit the Rohloff, although a compromise, it is not as much a compromise as having to use a Deraillure system with it's wafer thin 10 speed chain.

Thankfully I have a few new boxed Rohloff SLT-99 Chains, 8 Speed and bullet proof.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Had a look at the R&M website, and they are now using the Bosch 75nm CX Motor, which I thought would now be the case, as the Rohloff is good for 100nm Torque.

I like the look of the KTM, very clean lines, but can't bring myself to buy a bike that still uses Square Taper for the Cranks, what were they thinking when they designed that Yamaha Motor.

Can't be doing with Rim Brakes either, even if they are Hydraulic, so that's the KTM ruled out, nice try though.

Bosch got that right using the ISIS interface for cranks.

Will definitely be going for the Bosch 75nm CX Motor, when I come to get my HardTail Ebike, it's just a pity that I will have to use the Chain Tentioner, in order to fit the Rohloff, although a compromise, it is not as much a compromise as having to use a Deraillure system with it's wafer thin 10 speed chain.

Thankfully I have a few new boxed Rohloff SLT-99 Chains, 8 Speed and bullet proof.

We don't use Yamaha... there is no KTM eBIke that uses square taper.

Although if you speak to many many people in the cycle industry you'll find many fans of the old system who wished bottom brackets still came that way.

ISIS has its problems, but as with any solution, (proven by this very thread) if there are options.. you'll find people who are in favour of one or the other.

hub gears vs dérailleur, is the classic one.

But there are many many more, and if there was a correct answer the whole industry would be doing it. There isn't a correct answer, which is why most brands have to do multiple options because customers have different needs.

Our 2016 Macina Nuvinchi for instance has the gear hub, sliding dropouts, bosch drive etc etc I think you're looking for.

Its the performance drive though, not the CX.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/media/2016-macina-nuvinci-p5.359/

 

[Rohloffboy]

Thanks KTM, the bike in the image from Artstu, does feature a KTM with Yamaha Motor and it was that that I was referring to.

Good to know that KTM are using the Bosch Motor.

Is there any reason why that Nuvinci 360 KTM is not paired with the Bosch 75nm CX Motor, the Nuvinci like the Rohloff can take the Torque, in fact I believe the Nuvinci is even suitable for Electric Motorbikes, and can therefore take more Torque than even the Rohloff.

I notice Bosch specify the lower Torque Motors for IGH, so I am guessing that the Performance Drive on the KTM bike in your image is fitted with the 50nm Motor not the 60nm Motor.

I know that I am new to all this Ebike stuff, but I am eager to learn as much as I can, the Rohloff SpeedHub is going to add £750 to whatever Ebike I buy, unless I use my existing Rohloff SpeedHub.

Thanks Croxden, 16T Rear Sprocket is std for the Rohloff, I wonder if they have upped that to 17T for the new R&M Rohloff with the 75nm CX Motor, probably not as there is plenty of margin in anycase.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Thanks KTM, the bike in the image from Artstu, does feature a KTM with Yamaha Motor and it was that that I was referring to.

no it doesn't Thats a Macina Cross 8... which has a Bosch Active drive.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Is there any reason why that Nuvinci 360 KTM is not paired with the Bosch 75nm CX Motor, the Nuvinci like the Rohloff can take the Torque, in fact I believe the Nuvinci is even suitable for Electric Motorbikes, and can therefore take more Torque than even the Rohloff.

I notice Bosch specify the lower Torque Motors for IGH, so I am guessing that the Performance Drive on the KTM bike in your image is fitted with the 50nm Motor not the 60nm Motor.

I know that I am new to all this Ebike stuff, but I am eager to learn as much as I can, the Rohloff SpeedHub is going to add £750 to whatever Ebike I buy, unless I use my existing Rohloff SpeedHub.

No one will have a problem with any questions you have to ask I'm sure.

Bosch do 3 motor options now for 2016, so its simply not possible to offer all bikes in all options. The "touring" style KTM ebikes (model names are Macina Style, Macina Tour, Macina Dual, Macina Fun and Macina Nuvinchi) all come with either the Performance or the Active Line drives. However only the Nuvinchi only comes with a hub gear, the rest are all derailleur geared. The Performance motors are different for use with hub geared bikes.

The numbers I have show that the nominal wattage is the same (250w) bu the max wattage (@88rpm) is 570w on the normal one, and 400w on the hub geared bike.

 

[Rohloffboy]

That's odd, according to the Bosch website there are 5 variants of the 250watt Motor.

All with various Torque outputs, why don't they just simply do the one motor with the max 75nm Torque spec, it seems plain daft to me to have so many variants.

The Bosch Motor that R&M use for there Rohloff Hub bike is the CX 75nm 250watt, Cube bikes use the exact same Bosch Motor for there Derailleur Geared Cross Hybrid Race Allroad 500 so I fail to see what the difference is that you mention, apart from Bosch state the CX 75nm as for Chain not Hub, so it seems we have a contradiction there straight away, or should Bosch have stated not for some IGH's.

Maybe it is the case that some IGH's can't handle Torque above 48nm, but others like the Nuvinci 360 and Rohloff can, umm I think I am onto something here.

Or am I missing something.

I understand that Bosch also do a 350watt Motor for the "S" Pedelec market, but that's another issue altogether.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

That's odd, according to the Bosch website there are 5 variants of the 250watt Motor.

This is correct, there are 3 x 250 drives. Active, Performance and CX... the two less powerful ones (Active and Performance) come in the IGH varient, therefore 5 in total.

All with various Torque outputs, why don't they just simply do the one motor with the max 75nm Torque spec, it seems plain daft to me to have so many variants.

Budgets and requirements vary massively, not everyone needs or is prepared to pay for the CX drive. Its the same reason you can't just buy one VW Golf, lots of different engine sizes and price points for the different potential customer.

The Bosch Motor that R&M use for there Rohloff Hub bike is the CX 75nm 250watt, Cube bikes use the exact same Bosch Motor for there Derailleur Geared Cross Hybrid Race Allroad 500 so I fail to see what the difference is that you mention, apart from Bosch state the CX 75nm as for Chain not Hub, so it seems we have a contradiction there straight away, or should Bosch have stated not for some IGH's.

We don't offer a Rohloff bike so I don't know about them I'm afraid, but we do offer CX, performance and active drive line bikes in a raft of different options. But we only do Performance and Active drives with the Nexus and Nuvinhi hubs, I suspect that is because of what Bosch and the hub companies specify, its not down to the bike brand.

Maybe it is the case that some IGH's can't handle Torque above 48nm, but others like the Nuvinci 360 and Rohloff can, umm I think I am onto something here.

Or am I missing something.

I understand that Bosch also do a 350watt Motor for the "S" Pedelec market, but that's another issue altogether.

That would seem logical yes... and the 350w motor is the same as the 250w it just has a different speed restriction.

 

[Rohloffboy]

Yep, thanks for the info, I now know were I am heading, of the shelf Ebike with Bosch 250watt CX 75nm Motor, Deraillure Geared, rip out the Derraillure and add the Rohloff with Chain Tensioner, job done simples.

Looks like I will buying the "Cube Cross Hybrid Race Allroad 500" it seems the best doner Ebike for my needs at just £1,900.

If there is anything similiar in the KTM stable let me know, and I will give it a view.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

That Cube has a UK RRP of £2099, so if you can find it for £1800 I'd buy that....

in fact scrub that... don't buy it for £1800, one of our good dealers is selling them for £1499, so thats probably a better deal!

http://www.damianharriscycles.co.uk/prod/ele_0173_cz/cube-cross-hybrid-race-allroad-500-2016-electric-bike

our CX drive bikes start from £1949.99 RRP, but you won't find any of our dealers knocking £300 off new bikes already I suspect, so no way you'll get close to £1800 with a CX drive.

 

[Rohloffboy]

No problem, my order will be going in January 2016, there's a clue, not sure you're friends website is correct regards my choice of Ebike.

Although it is amazing that I can have a 250 watt CX 75nm Bosch equipped bike, shipped in from Germany, for less wonga than what UK dealers are asking.

But there again the £ is giving the € a pummelling at the moment.

Happy days for UK buyers I guess.

 

[Tomtomato]

The GBP was very strong against the EUR during the summer, but less now, and who knows in 3 months' time.

Yes, buying an ebike from continental Europe would cost less...until you have to return it once or twice for repairs. Of course, most mechanical repairs can be done in the UK as standard components (such as a failure of the "derailure"), but if something else fails, there will be a warranty issue.

But I am sure you 'nows that already.

 

[Rohloffboy]

Well there is nothing to say that I won't change my mind, also my Brother lives in Germany, which is another factor.

As for the £ to € yes we spent 3 weeks in France during July, and was getting 1.41€ to the £, which was the best it has been for a good number of years, and has only fell back slightly recently.

As for repairs, well I shipped in 3 Titanium Frames from China back in 2004, built two into Rohloff's and one into a SRAM Spectro P7.

I can do most job's, but my Son (30) is a cycle mechanic, and we have a fully kitted workshop, funnily enough we recently had an Ebike in for some work.