NEC Bike Show this Saturday

[pdarnett]

Wish I'd know Dave, I've been today!

 

[pdarnett]

And one more! Plus rode the new A2B (with the belt driven NuVinci) and the Smart bike, oh and that Robgrady thing which wasn't half bad at all!!

 

[trex]

It's this one. I calculate the reduction to be about 3 to 1, which would mean about 10 mph top speed?

http://www.moustachebikes.com/starck_bike_snow.html

the reduction ration appears to be about 20/14 or 21/15.

 

[Gringo]

I calculate the reduction to be about 3 to 1

From what I can see of the sprocket teeth in your pic, I recon there's a 22 tooth & 16 tooth.
guesstimating a reduction of 0.7:1
To get a 3:1 reduction you'll need a 48 tooth sprocket along with the 16 tooth.
I may be wrong but I do spend a lot of time with gears As I build reduction gearboxes as part of my hobby ( RC trucks)

 

[Gringo]

There you go beaten to it !
I took to long to write my reply

 

[Deleted member 4366]

There's two reductions. It looks like 2:1 from the motor ouput shaft to the larger sprocket, then a further reduction of about 1.5:1 to the small sprocket. Finally, there's a question of whether that sprocket is smaller than the standard Bosch one, which would give even further reduction. Their motor output sprocket appears to be tiny compared with the normal Bosch mk 2 one.

 

[Gringo]

OK, so the chain moves at a given speed from the motor sprocket, it then turns the large gear shown in your pic, the size of this gear dose not effect the speed of the chain only the speed at wich the smaler sprocket turns & moves the final drive chain.
As the two sprockets shown must rotate at the same speed on one shaft there can be only one reduction.
This is what my 40 years of mechanical engineering tells me.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It's a double reduction if the motor drive sprocket is smaller than the standard one, though. And it looks tiny - maybe half the standard size. AFAIK, the Bosh sprocket is 18T. As far as I can count, the bigger sprocket is 18T, but it looks a lot like the motor sprocket is much smaller by the angle of the chain, although it could be an illusion if the centre of the motor shaft is lower than the jack shaft..

 

[mfj197]

The Bosch sprocket is often 14t. Looks like the final drive sprocket is about the same. It's a reduction drive by maybe 0.7 to 1.

Michael

 

[Julie]

I went to the cycle show on Friday and had a fantastic time checking out the bikes, it was the first time i have been to an ebike demo day and it was much much better than had anticipated.

I thought i might have to book a specific bike for a demo, and was really pleased to see you could just walk around and take any bike you fancied out for a demo, and that there was no pressure from salespeople.

The range of bike was very good too, covering many price points and styles, and i was happy to see a lot of mid drive bikes, as a list that i had seen on the cycle show website did not seem to list many.

I thought the test circuit was not too bad, given the limitations, not something i would use to judge a £2-3k bike purchase, but good enough to give a feel of a bike to create a shortlist.

I learnt a lot from testing many bikes, and a lot of the bikes that i thought would be a good choice for me, ended up being less than ideal in real life, and some that i had written off proved to be much more enticing.

Being able to test back to back different styles of bike was so beneficial, i don’t think i could have gained that experience just going to individual dealers, not having sales people watching over your every move made me feel much more confident and free to keep going back to bikes to recompare them, maybe its just me, but when i’m in a shop a feel a bit guilty taking up a salespersons time when i know i’m not going to buy right away.

I ended up confirming that a mid drive bike would be a good choice for me, very quiet and refined, I did like a bike with a panasonic rear hub, it seemed quite gutsy, but overall I think mid drive is the way to go for me.

I”d pretty much determined that i would go for a more upright bike to commute on, one with mudguards, a rear rack and lights, with large wheels and skinny tyres, , but after riding a few of them I was left underwhelmed, it felt like a distant experience, i didn’t feel connected with the bike, and it was just no fun.

I tried some mountain bike style ones and i instantly liked the feel and geometry of them (not surprising given that i’ve been riding mountain bikes for 25 years) From a practicality point of view, probably less suitable for commuting, but with slicker tyres and a seat post mounted rack and some decent lights i think it would be good.

There were a couple of bikes that i demoed that i just had to keep coming back to, I just could not help riding around the circuit with a big grin on my face riding either, and they are top of my shortlist, one was a KTM and the other was a Haibike, both mountain bike hard tail styles.

 

[RobF]

I went to the cycle show on Friday and had a fantastic time checking out the bikes, it was the first time i have been to an ebike demo day and it was much much better than had anticipated.

I thought i might have to book a specific bike for a demo, and was really pleased to see you could just walk around and take any bike you fancied out for a demo, and that there was no pressure from salespeople.

The range of bike was very good too, covering many price points and styles, and i was happy to see a lot of mid drive bikes, as a list that i had seen on the cycle show website did not seem to list many.

I thought the test circuit was not too bad, given the limitations, not something i would use to judge a £2-3k bike purchase, but good enough to give a feel of a bike to create a shortlist.

I learnt a lot from testing many bikes, and a lot of the bikes that i thought would be a good choice for me, ended up being less than ideal in real life, and some that i had written off proved to be much more enticing.

Being able to test back to back different styles of bike was so beneficial, i don’t think i could have gained that experience just going to individual dealers, not having sales people watching over your every move made me feel much more confident and free to keep going back to bikes to recompare them, maybe its just me, but when i’m in a shop a feel a bit guilty taking up a salespersons time when i know i’m not going to buy right away.

I ended up confirming that a mid drive bike would be a good choice for me, very quiet and refined, I did like a bike with a panasonic rear hub, it seemed quite gutsy, but overall I think mid drive is the way to go for me.

I”d pretty much determined that i would go for a more upright bike to commute on, one with mudguards, a rear rack and lights, with large wheels and skinny tyres, , but after riding a few of them I was left underwhelmed, it felt like a distant experience, i didn’t feel connected with the bike, and it was just no fun.

I tried some mountain bike style ones and i instantly liked the feel and geometry of them (not surprising given that i’ve been riding mountain bikes for 25 years) From a practicality point of view, probably less suitable for commuting, but with slicker tyres and a seat post mounted rack and some decent lights i think it would be good.

There were a couple of bikes that i demoed that i just had to keep coming back to, I just could not help riding around the circuit with a big grin on my face riding either, and they are top of my shortlist, one was a KTM and the other was a Haibike, both mountain bike hard tail styles.

A couple of the riders in my group run mountain bikes with shallow tread tyres in summer and knobblies in the winter.

It's a sensible way to go, although in pushbike terms you are cycling a relatively heavy bike.

A mountain bike is also a good 'one bike' proposition because you can fit fast running tyres for the road or proper wide knobblies for the mud.

Most hybrids lack the frame clearance to do that.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

The other thing I noticed was this jackshaft on a couple of Moustache bikes:

View attachment 9645

It looks like it lowers the gearing of the Bosch motor, but I'm not sure why they want to do that. Anybody got any ideas?

Dave I thought you were an engineer?
Worked this one out in seconds..

Its a clever and unique approach to mounting the motor in a central position.
On a fat bike, the rear hub is generally a lot wider. Moustache have taken this on board and added the cog to bring the chain out in line with the rear cassette. So its a lot smoother and saves unnecessary wear.

It also allows the use of fairly straight crank arms not super bent wide ones. This gives a much better feel when you ride the bike.. Its the difference between feeling like a bike and a pedalo.

Eddie - Certainly not a dogs dinner at all. More a work of art that has been thoroughly thought out and tested. Perfectly machined and mounted. This is something that Moustache are key on. They are actual riders.

Heres a better angle I took at EB so you can see what I mean:

Regards
Martin

 

[RobF]

Dave I thought you were an engineer?
Worked this one out in seconds..

Its a clever and unique approach to mounting the motor in a central position.
On a fat bike, the rear hub is generally a lot wider. Moustache have taken this on board and added the cog to bring the chain out in line with the rear cassette. So its a lot smoother and saves unnecessary wear.

It also allows the use of fairly straight crank arms not super bent wide ones. This gives a much better feel when you ride the bike.. Its the difference between feeling like a bike and a pedalo.

Eddie - Certainly not a dogs dinner at all. More a work of art that has been thoroughly thought out and tested. Perfectly machined and mounted. This is something that Moustache are key on. They are actual riders.

Heres a better angle I took at EB so you can see what I mean:

Regards
Martin

Makes a lot of sense.

I think Moustache has taken the opportunity to reduce the gearing a little bit.

That makes sense to me as an owner of two Bosch bikes.

Neither has a very low first gear, which is something you might really need on a fat bike.

 

[EddiePJ]

I still think that it looks like a lash up of a homebrew dogs dinner.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Dave I thought you were an engineer?
Worked this one out in seconds..

Its a clever and unique approach to mounting the motor in a central position.
On a fat bike, the rear hub is generally a lot wider. Moustache have taken this on board and added the cog to bring the chain out in line with the rear cassette. So its a lot smoother and saves unnecessary wear.

It also allows the use of fairly straight crank arms not super bent wide ones. This gives a much better feel when you ride the bike.. Its the difference between feeling like a bike and a pedalo.

Eddie - Certainly not a dogs dinner at all. More a work of art that has been thoroughly thought out and tested. Perfectly machined and mounted. This is something that Moustache are key on. They are actual riders.

Heres a better angle I took at EB so you can see what I mean:

Regards
Martin

But why the reduction? And what is the reduction radio?

 

[RobF]

But why the reduction? And what is the reduction radio?

a, to ride on shifting sand and b, who cares so long as it works?

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

I still think that it looks like a lash up of a homebrew dogs dinner.

Hmmmm... Not sure what Mr Starck would have to say about that.
Look at the finish? There has clearly been some thought put in. Well finished and well engineered.
Anyway each to their own.. Can't help thinking with your recent posts, if it had a big orange K on the front of it you'd be more susceptible

Heres a better picture (Different angle) to wet your appetite:

Regards
Martin

 

[EddiePJ]

Whichever brand of bike that it had been, I'd still be saying that it's ugly and looks a mash up.

As you say, each to their own and I can't get excited by a bit of ally welding, polishing and a Heath Robinson looking chain drive system. They have let themselves down with such an agricultural cover plate. Had that element been better executed and the stupid fur cover binned, then I might have given it a cursory second glance if I had been passing by.

edit.. I should have added that I'm sure many won't see it that way, and that the bike will fulfil it's role sales and marketing wise.

 

[TinKitten]

I went to the show on Sunday as a spur of the moment thing. I was pleasantly surprised by how much space was devoted to ebikes. I had the opportunity to say hi to Martin, thank him for his informative articles and admire his lovely looking Haibikes. I also had a long chat with Col who was really nice to meet in person and told him how much I was enjoying my KTM.

 

[jackhandy]

From a practicality point of view, probably less suitable for commuting, but with slicker tyres and a seat post mounted rack and some decent lights i think it would be good.

You should be able to fit a proper rack to a hardtail, which would probably be a better proposition than a post mounted one.