My new 31 year old "e-bike" !

[morphix]

Here's my shopping list thus far:

1) 12V 36-40Ah battery (L23 x W13 x H20 cm or close to this size)
2) Some kind of easy lid with terminals mounting that fits the above battery.
3) 2 x 16" new rear wheels and tyres
4) 1 x 12" new front wheel and tyre

Any suggestions on the wheels would be much appreciated! There's so many choices there. I'm thinking not regular spoked wheels. Nor plastic molded rim wheels (plastic rims melted on the original C5's from the brake blocks and they soon moved to alloy).

Maybe wider alloy wheels with the thick spokes, like on scooters and golf buggies? I will have to get the measurements of the original wheels and how much clearance is available.

Some people have used the Schwalbe Big Apple 12" tyres for the front wheel which have the Kevlar puncture belt guard. Although Big Apple is getting harder to find these days in 12" I hear.

I think ideally I'd like to fit some tyres with very good puncture-resistance. The last thing you want is a puncture on a C5 in the middle of nowhere!!

The Kevlar puncture belt is ok but it's not great IMO (my 24V eMezzo has them and has managed to get a puncture!).

The Marathan Plus tyres are great I used them on my 36V eMezzo and have never ever had a puncture even riding over glass, but those are slim road tyres and probably too slim for the C5?

Probably need much wider wheel rims and tyres for better traction and stability?

The choice of rear wheels though has to be considered in the context of future possible upgrading, so maybe it's best to leave the original ones on for now, and just replace the 31 year old inner tubes and tyres.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Hello Morphix I read some of your posts from your previous life when researching.

I love the C5! My vote on your question would be keep the exterior as stock looking as possible and bring the electrics into the 21st century. I know you are on a budget, I understand tight budgets only too well!

Bellow is the problem area:


By Prioryman - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=35368158

The motor needs to be flipped and drive both rear wheels from a sprocket in the centre of the axle, if you go without a rear diff it is much better having two wheel drive rather than one.

If the value of these things is so high (£2500?) your best bet is to restore to as near factory as possible resell for a large profit and move on to another project with a bigger budget at your disposal.

Or bust your own budget and modernise the drive train and battery - a modern geared hub motor, Samagaga geared differential, disk brakes... Trike hubs are easy enough to find, keep the weight down and build strong light wheels with Schwalbe ballon tyres...

 

[morphix]

Hello Morphix I read some of your posts from your previous life when researching.

I love the C5! My vote on your question would be keep the exterior as stock looking as possible and bring the electrics into the 21st century. I know you are on a budget, I understand tight budgets only too well!

Bellow is the problem area:

View attachment 13802
By Prioryman - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=35368158

The motor needs to be flipped and drive both rear wheels from a sprocket in the centre of the axle, if you go without a rear diff it is much better having two wheel drive rather than one.

If the value of these things is so high (£2500?) your best bet is to restore to as near factory as possible resell for a large profit and move on to another project with a bigger budget at your disposal.

Or bust your own budget and modernise the drive train and battery - a modern geared hub motor, Samagaga geared differential, disk brakes... Trike hubs are easy enough to find, keep the weight down and build strong light wheels with Schwalbe ballon tyres...

Woah great post thank you! Flipping the motor to the centre axle to drive both wheels never even occurred to me, that's a great idea.

You're right they are worth a fair bit once fully restored, so this could be viewed as an investment to sell on once restored I suppose. Although the C5alive forum reckons a C5 is nearly always worth more non-restored oddly, for parts due to the lack of availability of parts and the need for owner fanatics to have access to original parts to keep theirs running. A few C5's have to be sacrificed for the greater good, so to speak I really don't want to break mine tho as it's pretty good condition and I think it would be shame if it can be restored, it's certainly worth bringing another C5 back to life!

I will have to try it out with the original stock motor configuration and see how well it performs and upload a video. Then if it's worth doing some kind of upgrade, decide whether just flipping the motor and adding gears, or modernising everything is feasible on my budget based on what's available! I do some research on the motor and tyres you suggest, keeping the weight down whilst maximising the performance would surely be a big bonus with the C5!

 

[morphix]

Tis a nice picture of the motor there! I forgot what a hefty beast of a motor that is I can't wait to see it running

The old original motors are not too expensive, selling at around £50 on eBay for one that's been stripped down serviced and tested. That's one of the CHEAPEST parts on the C5 to replace strangely.

The C5 is a strange world the further you delve into it.. there's so much to learn, and little quirks and things about collector/owners and the prices of things.

A whole little C5 industry has emerged around this small but growing community of C5 enthusiasts who now who regularly meet up in the UK for C5 events, and even in European countries... some people have begun making 3D printed versions of some of the more expensive parts of the C5 to replace (i.e. the wing mirrors, an original clean pair will set you back £180..ouch! whilst a 3D cloned pair sell for £70, still mighty expensive when you can pick up electric car mirrors with LED indicators on back from around £15-£25 each).

I have the original C5 battery charger (not sure if that is any use for charging a new lead acid battery?) but those don't sell for much on eBay, probably because they're easy to replace, like the motor...£15 for an original C5 charger is all!

The chassis of the C5 sells for around £40-£80 depending on condition...the body shell around £60-£120 depending on condition... a pair of original optional indicators (mine has a set ) will set you back £70 on eBay (ouch!)

Anything plastic and bespoke or unique to the C5 is mega expensive..the front wheel covers being the worse, costing at least £80-£100!

Original C5 wheels are around £15-£35 each, depending on condition, but they're nearly always in terrible condition and in need of new inner tubes and tyres.

 

[Gubbins]

Woah great post thank you! Flipping the motor to the centre axle to drive both wheels never even occurred to me, that's a great idea.

You're right they are worth a fair bit once fully restored, so this could be viewed as an investment to sell on once restored I suppose. Although the C5alive forum reckons a C5 is nearly always worth more non-restored oddly, for parts due to the lack of availability of parts and the need for owner fanatics to have access to original parts to keep theirs running. A few C5's have to be sacrificed for the greater good, so to speak I really don't want to break mine tho as it's pretty good condition and I think it would be shame if it can be restored, it's certainly worth bringing another C5 back to life!

I will have to try it out with the original stock motor configuration and see how well it performs and upload a video. Then if it's worth doing some kind of upgrade, decide whether just flipping the motor and adding gears, or modernising everything is feasible on my budget based on what's available! I do some research on the motor and tyres you suggest, keeping the weight down whilst maximising the performance would surely be a big bonus with the C5!

When you do your video get a couple of bikers with head cams to zoom around you as you ride. If they look at you then you will be on the film....
This will be much better than from your perspective as rider/driver

 

[morphix]

When you do your video get a couple of bikers with head cams to zoom around you as you ride. If they look at you then you will be on the film....
This will be much better than from your perspective as rider/driver

That's a good idea but unfortunately I don't know any bikers with headcams.

I have a video camera though so could get someone to film a few drive by's.

 

[anotherkiwi]

T
Original C5 wheels are around £15-£35 each, depending on condition, but they're nearly always in terrible condition and in need of new inner tubes and tyres.

The Australian in the video brought up a good point about the plastic wheels melting on braking

Look at these:

https://www.taylor-wheels.com/bike-wheels/12-inch-bike-wheel/ you could mount a Magura hydraulic brake on the front which would mean you wouldn't need to rely on the rear brake much at all.

I also got his point about everything being built for the lowest possible cost which is why the back end is so strange and inefficient compared to relatively simple solutions that would have costed only slightly more.

 

[morphix]

Ok fasten your seat belts, we're going BACK TO THE PAST, C5 style!!

 

[morphix]

The Australian in the video brought up a good point about the plastic wheels melting on braking

Look at these:

https://www.taylor-wheels.com/bike-wheels/12-inch-bike-wheel/ you could mount a Magura hydraulic brake on the front which would mean you wouldn't need to rely on the rear brake much at all.

I also got his point about everything being built for the lowest possible cost which is why the back end is so strange and inefficient compared to relatively simple solutions that would have costed only slightly more.

Indeed!

I like your idea on the brakes, that sounds like a good improvement!

Re price point and odd design choices...that's the crazy thing with Sinclair I never understood (as an entrenepreneur myself)..he always always marketed his products around price..everything revolved around price..crazy. Forget market research. That's a waste of money. Marketing is simple the Sinclair Way. You simply TELL the customer what they want and make it so affordable everyone will want one. So he would decide a price, then manufacturer to fit that price...always a penny below lol... £39.99 ZX81 £49.99 ZX Spectrum... £199.99 Sinclair QL... £399.99 Sinclair C5... lol ....marketing strategy: We got the price, now build the thing to that price point, allowing for 100% profit. Got it! Beg, borrow, f'kin STEAL if you have to! I want that C5 to sell for £399!!!!

The C5 for £399 had absolutely nothing with it, except the battery...not even the seat padding thing hah. If you wanted all the "optional extras" you had to pay about another £200. That got you indicator lights, the hi vis mast, the wing mirrors..the seat cover and seat booster...

Damn, I think Dave bought a lemon off eBay?

No part 2 on his restoration and it's been over a year? :-/ He did say it looked pretty bad.

 

[deeman]

great read! I love what you are trying to do. If this were my project I would be thinking about some weight reduction to that chassis hole cutter style!