My motor may be faulty pt 3

[aardvark5]

This must be my third thread on front motors

So took my front wheel off my 26" to get it into the car to drop off at a garage.
Put the wheel back on and just a thud from the motor.
Eventually got home with no motor which wasn't easy because I'm registered disabled and my bikes act like mobility scooters.
Tried the motor cable about 10 times - thud
Tried a new motor cable - thud
Tried a new controller - thud.
Tried the motor on my 700c eBike - thud (basically the same parts).
Noticed an old 26" motor on the floor that I changed several years ago that also went thud but amazingly it is now working!
At this moment I daren't change tyre/inner tube over because if it fails going to or coming back from work I'll be majorly buggered so I'll use my hybrid tomorrow.

So since my new(ish) motor is going thud just like my old motor went thud (which is now working) have you got any ideas what I can do or just wait a couple of years to see if it works?

* When I say thud it's like a jolt of the motor so power is getting there

 

[Nealh]

Is the motor connector being pushed home fully ?

Which type of controller & display ?
Does it have learn wires ?

 

[aardvark5]

1) Absolutely, I even marked the old identical motor which works now. I have had that problem in the past. It also didn't work on my other bike - just the little thud like it wanted to start.

2) It's a K2 system like what Cyclotricity and Yose Power use (this is some parts for another build).



3) I have never heard of learn wires before.

Just to verify, this motor has stopped working and also doesn't work on my other identical bike (except that little thud) and a very old motor that had exactly the same problem now works on the bike.
I have many spare parts and tried new controller and cables etc however that old motor works so everything points to the recent motor being faulty.
Since the old motor is now working I just wondered if there is a trick to force the recent motor to work?

Thanks

 

[wheeliepete]

If it worked before you took the motor wheel off, then as Nealh has said, it sounds like the motor connector is not fully pushed together, it often needs a good bit of push to fully engage to the line on the plug.

 

[Nealh]

You need to test the motor hall sensors if it has them, not easy with the WP wiring.
Can you connect up a controller that used wire block connectors ? If so then a simple hall test will tell you if they are at fault.

If one doesn't have a wire block controller type then one will have to make up a special Y lead (easily done) or test y opening the controller and probe the contacts direct off the pcb.

 

[Nealh]

Is there a bent or misaligned pin in the WP julet connector ?

 

[aardvark5]

Is there a bent or misaligned pin in the WP julet connector ?

Definitely not, I even took macro photos to make sure and two motors work on my MTB which the faulty one was off.
I then plugged the faulty motor into my near identical second bike and it didn't work in that.
I will try the faulty motor plug again but if I push any harder it's going to damage something.

 

[Nealh]

You need to do as I said in #5.
Another theory is that motor phase sync has been lost, does the display have any advanced setting parameters ?

 

[aardvark5]

You need to do as I said in #5.
Another theory is that motor phase sync has been lost, does the display have any advanced setting parameters ?

I have skillz but you've mentioned this before in my bi-yearly posts and it's a bit over my head.

I can get into settings, used to do it to make the motor go faster (10 years ago).
That's another thing, when the motor cable has come loose before (18 months ago) I got an error message on my display, my brain tells me it was an error 3 which actually said to check your motor cable, there is no error message this time.

It's a bugger, I retire this year but I still need both my bikes up until May to get to work and back at the local hospital.
I have sourced a front motor for £100 so may go for it.
I'm just wary that my old motor now works Well I think it does until I can test it properly.

 

[aardvark5]

Update

1) Tried pushing cables together harder on both bikes, no chance.
2) This morning I built up the old 26" motor that went faulty about 4 years ago but is now working. Took it out for a run but it failed under load after 20 yards confirming that it is faulty even though it pretended to work.
3) 2 year old motor still won't work on either bike except for that initial little thud.
4) I thought could the electrics be faulty on my MTB so I tried the 700c motor on it and it works.

I've ordered a new front motor but it still doesn't explain why it all went wrong just because I unplugged the wheel and then plugged it back in again
I'll go for a dry joint or wheel cable faulty, I work with large PA systems and they can be a pain in the backside.

 

[GLJoe]

Took it out for a run but it failed under load after 20 yards

Just to check - are you 100% certain its not the battery?

 

[aardvark5]

Just to check - are you 100% certain its not the battery?

I have 2 identical batteries and two bikes with identical parts (apart from front wheel size) and I'm using the other bike alternating the batteries.

My only explanation is when I uncoupled and then coupled one of the wires has moved in the motor side.
When the new wheel comes I'll have the other one apart.

 

[aardvark5]

New front wheel motor came this morning and all working.
Still upset that all I did was unplug and reconnect the old one and it failed!!

 

[Nealh]

Did you carry out the test for motor hall failure as a failed hall will stop the motor working.

 

[aardvark5]

Did you carry out the test for motor hall failure as a failed hall will stop the motor working.

If one doesn't have a wire block controller type then one will have to make up a special Y lead (easily done) or test y opening the controller and probe the contacts direct off the pcb.

Now I've got two working bikes I can give it a go.
Mine are just K2/Julet connectors so need the other method.
I have a spare controller so do you have instructions for the Y lead and testing please?

 

[Nealh]

Show a pic of the motor/phase connection at the controller.

 

[aardvark5]

Show a pic of the motor/phase connection at the controller.

It's a Julet 9 pin connector so I need to buy an extension cable which I can cut in half, strip back and solder all the ends nicely for testing.
I'm also willing to buy the tester in this video that somebody linked to in my other two threads -

(or perhaps I don't really need one if I have multi meters?)
Now I've got 3 faulty motors on the floor it would be worth finding out what's going on with them.
I've also found a PDF you linked to ages ago testing hall sensors.
However if I finally manage to test the hall sensors and I find a faulty one what do I do to rectify it?

I appreciate your help.

 

[Nealh]

Use a strip wire household wire lock to connect the nine wire colours to each other. The one simply uses the screw for the probes to contact.

Use this link for testing process.
HallSensorTesting.cdr (ebikes.ca)