my enerprof softpack has arrived but not with lg mj1 but samsung 35e

hi all ordered a 13.8ah 36v softpack from enerprof.de on 27 march, arrived today .

however the pack should be 40x lg mj1 cells, but the sticker on the pack states Samsung 35e

not sure how these compare, I do not want a lesser spec than mj1.

 

seeing the softpack in the flesh with bms on top and the pack measures 70x95x210.

my 2 ebikes kudos with 350w rear hub Carrera subway tdz2 250 w I have 2 dolphin o9 13ah new 17 ah

 

the 17ah on subway gives about 35 miles range ,sport mode. about 25 on the kudos.

but wish to try the softpack on the kudos (fitted with xt90 connectors , and connectors is in bottom bracket area)

 

my original idea was to remove dolphin battery / and gaffer tape/ cable tie the softpack to the battery frame mount and connect up for a tempery measure.

seeing the softpack with the bms on top this is not going to be a good idea.

 

also thought get a dolphin empty case and fit softpack inside but these are about £40 + shipping.

not to keen on battery moving about in my rather weedy panniers.

no room for seatpost bag ,and the cables would be too short.

so need some input

especially on Sammy vs lg thanks all

 

 

just noticed Sammy 35e cells 3.95 euro, lg mj1 6 euro on enerprof

 

http://enerprof.de/shop/batteries/ebike-and-pedelec-batteries/enerpower-softpack-36v-10s4p-13-80ah-with-bms-pedelec-battery-8x8-diy/

 

Edited April 27, 20188 yr by footpump

hi all ordered a 13.8ah 36v softpack from enerprof.de on 27 march, arrived today .

however the pack should be 40x lg mj1 cells, but the sticker on the pack states Samsung 35e

not sure how these compare, I do not want a lesser spec than mj1.

 

seeing the softpack in the flesh with bms on top and the pack measures 70x95x210.

my 2 ebikes kudos with 350w rear hub Carrera subway tdz2 250 w I have 2 dolphin o9 13ah new 17 ah

 

the 17ah on subway gives about 35 miles range ,sport mode. about 25 on the kudos.

but wish to try the softpack on the kudos (fitted with xt90 connectors , and connectors is in bottom bracket area)

 

my original idea was to remove dolphin battery / and gaffer tape/ cable tie the softpack to the battery frame mount and connect up for a tempery measure.

seeing the softpack with the bms on top this is not going to be a good idea.

 

also thought get a dolphin empty case and fit softpack inside but these are about £40 + shipping.

not to keen on battery moving about in my rather weedy panniers.

no room for seatpost bag ,and the cables would be too short.

so need some input

especially on Sammy vs lg thanks all [ATTACH=full]24468[/ATTACH]

 

 

just noticed Sammy 35e cells 3.95 euro, lg mj1 6 euro on enerprof

 

http://enerprof.de/shop/batteries/ebike-and-pedelec-batteries/enerpower-softpack-36v-10s4p-13-80ah-with-bms-pedelec-battery-8x8-diy/

 

[ATTACH=full]24468[/ATTACH]

With my limited knowledge, I would say there was little in it, however, if you have paid for MJ1’s, then you should get MJ1’s.

The 35e’s are 3450mah, whereas MJ1’s are 3500mah. They both have 10a discharge. Nkon charge €3.89 for 35e’s, and €4.45 for MJ1’s, so that’s about 20 quid cheaper for 40 x 35e’s.

Like I say, you’ll not notice the difference, but it’s not what you’ve paid for. See if they’ll give you a partial refund and just accept the battery pack.

I’m sure someone will be along soon to either agree or disagree with me.

i have emailed enerprof re 35e instead of mj1,

doing a bit of googling 35e vs mj1 it seems the 35e are rated lower than the mj1 and are 8a rather than 10a of mj1.

the whole point of me buying the softpack was to compare my new yosepower 17ah at £245 do not know what cells, against a 13.8 with mj1

 

and see how they differ in range and performance as it seems better speced cells give far better results.

 

as you say I'm sure the more experienced guys will give input

Oh dear that seems a poor trade off cell price wise if they have charged you the same.

At 5 amp discharge 35E is worse then MJ1 and sags more by virtue of higher IR.

 

 

Edited April 27, 20188 yr by Nealh

My previous post doesn't mean you have got crap cells the 35E is a so-so cell with very good capacity if used accordingly. As with any good or very good cell you can't have or extract both of the batteries qualities of amp draw and capacity, you can have one or the other or compromise and meet somewhere in the middle with reduced capacity/range.

If your controller is 15a then the 35E in 4P at most will be drawing < 4a so sag will be better and capacity should be good. On most rides unless you are continually climbing or riding in the highest of assist levels actual amp draw will be in the low to medium range in lower assist levels . Kt's amp draw up to level 3 are reasonably low (about half of the max rating) it is only 4 and esp 5 which draw the higher amp load. So if in level 3 mostly you will only be seeing 1.75 - 2a load on the cells which should see good range from the quoted capacity,If you ride in level 2 then you should see very good range.

Edited April 28, 20188 yr by Nealh

Two more graphs to compare lower amp load and for both, the cells are more equal though the MJ1 does hold up a slightly higher voltage curve longer to give 5-10% more usage time to a useful 3.2V. Ignore the lower voltage curves as most BMS have lvc set for 3.2v - 3.4v.

It is only at a higher amp load that the MJ1 is a bit better with less sag along it's curve. Horses for courses at lower loading 35E is fine, if you had a 20a controller then the MJ1 would be better with you 4P battery.

 

 

Edited April 28, 20188 yr by Nealh

thanks nealh

 

 

I found running the 350w at 15amps with the controller as supplied with our yose/elife kit I am down 5 miles in range compared with same battery on my 250w cd tdz2 in sport mode.

did shunt mod on controller and went up one rather steep hill with ease.

tried another even steeper hill and as it turns out blew controller mosfet.

at the moment 15ah controller being used as supplied with kit jullet connection.

 

I have taken the plunge and ordered the 36/48v 17 ah 350w kt controller from psw power along with the kt led 890 (36v) which seems to have jullet and normal non weatherproof connecter.

I have a spare pas/throttle/cut of levers/ and moter cable from my ebc hub kit which was a kt controller (non jullet) so might be able to use the 17amp controller with 350w but will only have 3 levels of pas with 890.

 

 

in your lower graph it looks like the discharge is 40 mins for 35e and 90+ for mj1 I am assuming 4 th line in is the pink one.

 

as regards enerprof no reply as yet, but advert clearly states( fitted with lg mj1 cells)

 

I changed my cable leads to take xt60 connecters , only to find the enerpack has a xt 90 cant change connecter on enerpack as this would void warrenty so a male xt90 to female xt60 adapter is on its way from china.

thanks nealh

 

 

I found running the 350w at 15amps with the controller as supplied with our yose/elife kit I am down 5 miles in range compared with same battery on my 250w cd tdz2 in sport mode.

did shunt mod on controller and went up one rather steep hill with ease.

tried another even steeper hill and as it turns out blew controller mosfet.

at the moment 15ah controller being used as supplied with kit jullet connection.

 

I have taken the plunge and ordered the 36/48v 17 ah 350w kt controller from psw power along with the kt led 890 (36v) which seems to have jullet and normal non weatherproof connecter.

I have a spare pas/throttle/cut of levers/ and moter cable from my ebc hub kit which was a kt controller (non jullet) so might be able to use the 17amp controller with 350w but will only have 3 levels of pas with 890.

 

 

in your lower graph it looks like the discharge is 40 mins for 35e and 90+ for mj1 I am assuming 4 th line in is the pink one.

 

as regards enerprof no reply as yet, but advert clearly states( fitted with lg mj1 cells)

 

I changed my cable leads to take xt60 connecters , only to find the enerpack has a xt 90 cant change connecter on enerpack as this would void warrenty so a male xt90 to female xt60 adapter is on its way from china.

You are not reading the graphs correctly, the top one is for the Samsung the bottom one is for the LG.

The pink line is a 5A load, 39 mins for Samsung and 38 mins for LG.

chris-n top graph pink bottom graph green so what am I doing wrong?

having looked on the site from which charts came from www.lygte-info.dk

 

I see the pink or green refers to the colour of the battery, not as I assumed the colour of graph lines.

 

good site plenty of info on various batteries and other stuff

Edited April 28, 20187 yr by footpump

The Samsung is pink wrapper, the LG is green wrapper. Each graph contains the same information for each cell type. The different lines on the graphs represent discharge times at different current loadings.

As said you are reading the graphs incorrectly FP.

The top graph in it's header clearly states it is 35E discharge and bottom graph clearly states it is MJ1 discharge.

Each of the colour traces represent in both cases the same load applied (in amps), this is indicated in the bar at the bottom of each graph.

Looking at both graphs the 4th trace the light blue one is a 2a load applied to the represented cell, the discharge time down to 3.3v is exactly the same 80 mins.

The MJ1 voltage holds up only marginally better then 35E, in the 5a trace again the MJ1 is marginally better down to 3.3v lasting about 3 mins longer run time this does equate though to some 17%, more run time though.

All in all at low amp draw (<5a load) MJ1 holds the voltage a tad higher, MJ1 run time is approx. 17% more at 5a load but less at a lower load and generally is a better cell.

Edited April 28, 20187 yr by Nealh

hello all today sent another email to enerprof.de re Samsung 35e cells in my pack not lg mj1.

also mentioned as a pedelec uk forum member who has posted the above info potential customers might be wary of enerprof if they get different cells than mentioned on website.

 

I have received a email in reply , but do not know how I post said email.

 

the gist of email is cells are down to avalibility and on german enerprof shop, Samsung or lg cells might be used, but have to have similar spec.

English shop of enerprof does not state this.

 

and in practise would not notice any difference between the cells and we prefer to fit Samsung.

 

been sent 2 pdfs Sammy and lg but these do not mean much to me , so the more knowledgeable members can give there views.

 

I did not get offered a small rebate even though I asked ?

 

I did not buy a enerprof charger as I have 2 with same charger fitting but are 2amp output is this ok with the 35e?

 

also not sure what the cut of would be 42v full charge. or where nearly empty would be if checking with a multi meter

Technical_Information_INR18650-35E.pdf

Specification_INR18650MJ1.pdf

Edited April 30, 20187 yr by footpump

2a charge is fine and standard for most cells, faster charging ( more amps) lead to shorter cell life unless it is a high spec cell. At 2a your cells will charging at 0.5a each. Most cells are able to charge at 1c which is their capacity rating so in your case 3.4a per cell.

Edited April 30, 20187 yr by Nealh

A balanced charge will be 41.6 - 42v and end discharge V will depend on the BMS spec minimum will be about 3.2/3.3v.

0.2C is the recommended charge current, so 13.8 x 0.2 = 2.76A.

 

Charging at a lower current is better for the cells. Charging at a higher current is a case of the higher the current, the worse it is for the cells. Any boundaries given for higher charging are arbitrary., i.e. it makes no significant difference if you're a little below or above the border,

bit more info from assi at enerprof.

some info on my thread out of date.

older vertions of Samsung 35e no longer made.

in jan 2018 internal quality problems with 35e cell hence mj1 used.

march 2018 few lg cells available. Samsung cells quality good

lg consentrating of cells for cars, not many cells relised onto the market

 

hence higher price

 

a later graph

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=608&akku2=577&akku3=&akku4=&akku5=&akku6=&a=2

English website will be updated

I also asked about Samsung 30q packs/batteries these will 15% dearer

 

and enerprof are awaiting new bms, and may offer more battery options with 30q

 

nkon.dl for battery prices

 

believe I have given the correct info above from the email from enerprof,

 

all we need now is a break from our sh*t weather to be able to ride our ebikes.

Samsung 30q

I know this thread has been inactive for a while now, but are you still using these batteries and is there any other tales of caution before using enerprof?

 

I have managed to convince myself (and the BH) that due to Brexit and the strong(ish) euro at the moment it does appear to be a good time within the next few months to finally purchase a new battery, I am looking at samsung 30q but do not want any substituted cells of lesser spec or value, In your case I was sure that under EU law if a company was to make a substitute regardless of T&C's on the website, firstly they had to notify you to see if you wished to cancel the contract for a full refund or offer an equal or better product in place of... failing that a little heads up would of been simple enough - personally I would have started an email stating "I am not being funny but..."

Big thread on ES at the mo on cell life cycle ageing testing by some of the guys on there to 700 cycles.

There criteria is only measuring capacity between 4.1v - 3.3v the most usable capacity without charging to 4.2v which holds very little use for a cell, charging is at 1a and discharge is 2.5a per cell.

Having reached 700cycles Panny cells PF & GA are poor performers and at 400 cycles 30Q is on a par with PF.

PF keeps 79% capacity.

GA about 84%.

30Q at 400 cycles 87%.

29E.v7 700 cycles 90%.

M36 700 cycles 94%.

MJ1 400 cycles 96%.

 

 

Top cells for cycle life appear to be 29E, M36 and MJ1.

 

Two newer cycles tests have began with HG2 and 50E(21700 cell).

Edited February 8, 20206 yr by Nealh

Top cells for cycle life appear to be 29E

Isn't that cell a bit weak on amps though there is a 36v pack with E on a 10S6P build however it's only 8 amp cont per parallel connection but with a BMS cont of 22amps. Thinking back to my voltage sag I would like to avoid this if at all possible even though my batteries have had at least 364 cycles min, I remember you mentioning about 4P so I am looking at 36v @6P or 48v @5P this time I do have some cash ready but similar AH on a 36V is £65 cheaper then a 48v - there's a VTC 36V 6P £306 or a 48V Q 5P £370 - but mentioning the E has me looking at the 17ah 36v 6P £285 - I am looking at 17a max setting on the controller - I hate making decisions I have yet to revert back the 15 amp controller final test before I purchase anything.

I think i will go with the VTC 48v 5P - now a quick question on fast charging, cost is £330 with a 3 amp charger and shipping or 5a charger free shipping £333, I read that fast charging is not the best??

 

Top cells for cycle life appear to be 29E, M36 and MJ1.

 

I made up an auxiliary battery lately with 40 of 29E but they were version 6 and had solder u tags and (I thought) were at a good price of 2.22 euro each.

Anyhow, one thing I noticed on ES is that they are testing their cell life at 1C or less, and there seems to be a general recommendation on the forum to keep battery currents down to this if you want good battery life. (There seems to be bad reports on 30Q and other high discharge cells).

https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18650-size/samsung-inr18650-29e-2900mah-e6-8-25a-met-u-tag.html

The 29E is a low power cell, I bemoaned it's worth on here a few years ago. That was because I abused it a bit too much with higher discharge. If it is treated well it is a top performer for it price point. My pair of 29Es now well into their 6th year still give me 40 miles range each if I molly them a bit, for my use for commuting and town errands they are very good though I have to keep current at PAS 1 or 2.

 

1c for 29E is 2.9a so for a 5P battery 14.5a or 15a controller is the perfect match for it, though no reason why you can't push it to a 20a controller operating 5P cells as 1c would only be 1.37c

If one wants ultimate cycle life charging regime needs altering as well and the habitual 4.2v full charge of batteries needs to be ignored by the more knowledgeable users for the most part and charge to 4.1v, to prevent any P group imbalance a full balance charge could be adopted every maybe 10 or 20 full cycles to keep P groups in check.

Edited February 8, 20206 yr by Nealh

Leaving cells at 4.2v should only be very short term and I only allow this for about a max of 6 - 8hrs when I carry out a full balance charge other wise I leave them at <3.9v per cell when not in use even if only for day or two.

 

Between 4.1v and 4.2v there is very little capacity of much use and certainly it isn't the theoretical 10% it is said to be nor does it give 10% range. I find with all my 2900mah batteries that the 0.1v only gives me approx. 1- 1.5 miles use before it is depleted. The extra 0.1v appears to do little for cycle life

The high amp C rated cells like the VTC's & 30Q are good if you need them for high current draw other wise they loose capacity quite quickly.

The VTC6 is down to 92.5% capacity after only 100 cycles and the 30Q fairs a bit worse, If you need ultimate range then the LG MJ1 and M36 look like a good low - med powered cell, if range isn't critical the 29E looks best, though it also said the LG M29 good.

Of interest and one I'm watching is how the 21700 50E fairs, currently after 100 cycles it is matching the LG twins.

Edited February 8, 20206 yr by Nealh

I made up an auxiliary battery lately with 40 of 29E but they were version 6 and had solder u tags and (I thought) were at a good price of 2.22 euro each.

Anyhow, one thing I noticed on ES is that they are testing their cell life at 1C or less, and there seems to be a general recommendation on the forum to keep battery currents down to this if you want good battery life. (There seems to be bad reports on 30Q and other high discharge cells).

https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18650-size/samsung-inr18650-29e-2900mah-e6-8-25a-met-u-tag.html

 

Good to see I'm not the only one who take's interest in the ES guys efforts with cells testing.

Edited February 9, 20206 yr by Nealh