My Brompton build with Tongxin motor

trepo

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 19, 2009
20
0
Hi all and greetings from Finland!

I have been following discussions on the forum already for a while and actually it was this forum that I first time got to know Brompton bicycles, those small folding bikes. Last fall I bought one from eBay.co.uk and it has been in our garage since. It is not suitable to use here in Finland in wintertime, small wheels etc.

As a sidenote I already have one ebike, it's an old trekkingbike with rear motor. It has studded wintertyres and has been working great even on cold periods. Coldest time I have driven it was -23 Celsius (9 mile roundtrip) and there was no problems at all. Honestly it was taken out from warm garage and didn't have to stay outside no longer than 2 hours, and I don't know if internal gearings would suffer if it were outside longer time. Anyway I stayed quite warm (I had a commando style balaclava, beabie hat and a regular bike helmet to keep my head warm) but the main problem was fingers, they tend to get cold after a while. Now back to topic.

My Brompton is a regular black 2009 M6L model so it has no rack. I intend to put the batteries on a saddle bag.

The motor is a 36 volt 260 rpm Tongxin bought directly from China. The supplier was Dongguan Desheng Industrial Development Co and I corresponded with Billy Lei. He is the same guy that german pedelec forum members bought a bigger lot of motors in the past. It seems that Tongxin motors are a little bit hard to get these days and that's why I asked the supplier if it is ok for me to share their contact information. I have to thank forum user jerrysimon for originally hinting me to this seller, thanks Jerry!

I already got the kit last week, but haven't had time to start building until now. Here is the kit contents:



In addition to the motor itself there are a controller, just one cheap plastic brake cutting lever, pedelec sensor (it's reguired here) and a twist type throttle. I asked for a thumb throttle but apparently they didn't have one or it was a misunderstanding. The throttle works fine however and the controller seems to to have an autocruise function; if you keep the throttle steady, after while you can release it and the motor keeps running. The twist throttle is, in my opinion, quite ugly. I don't like those chrome-colored end caps at all and will maybe replace it with thumb throttle and a 3-mode switch that others have used with similar builds. The end caps may even hit the ground when Brompton is folded so they have to go. They are purely decorative though.

Here are some shots about the motor:



There reads "Outrider Brushless" on the left. I used flash to make the other part of the text clear.



This is my version of truing stand. The lacing was very easy, I just used a picture of a ready made wheel as a reference. The truing part took a while but I knew if I'd rush with it, I might have to start from the beginning again.

Basically I screwed the spokes (119 mm long) into 12 mm nipples until there was no thread showing. The rim was a little twisted, so I corrected it little by little until it was just right both vertically and horisontally. After that I turned the nipples one more quarter turn and the spokes seem to have about same tension as spokes on the existing Brompton wheel. Probably whole half turn would have been too much, because these are so short spokes and small rim.



The motor width is about 82 mm, axle total width about 145 mm. I got the motor without roller brake fittings, but I specifically asked for it. The motor weight is 2074 grams.

When I did test run the motor it rotated wrong way and there was no real power, I could easily stop the movement with my hand. The solution was simple, I just tried the phase wires in another order and everything was OK. The color codes on the wires had been mixed up, probably quite common.

Please ask if there is anything you would like to know about the motor or other parts and I'll try my best to answer...
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
trepo,

Excellent work and a great write up!

Like me you have had to wait a while and be patient until the motor turned up. Your going to be rewarded when it is done though, as riding the Brompton under power from the small Tongxin is so much fun.

I am envious that you got one without a roller brake fitting :eek:

As you porbably saw I am having trouble with one of my motors and if I get it apart, I guess the advantage will be I will be able to shorten the shaft and cut off the roller brake fitting.

Keep us udated!

PS love the improvised wheel truing stand.

Regards

Jerry
 
Last edited:

Lloyd

Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2010
166
0
Looks good Trepo, impressive improvised true stand.

You should enter that in the Brompton World Championships. ;)
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Puma, I think he is still building it.

If you want to see one ready completed you can read through my thread here

Follow it through to the end as there are loads of pics.

Regards

Jerry
 
Last edited:

trepo

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 19, 2009
20
0
A short update about building process:

The pedelec sensor has been installed. I had a little difficulties there. The sensor consists of plastic round part with magnets and the sensor part itself which is attached to a metal bracket.

First I removed the chainwheel side crank using crank extraction tool (again, ebay was my friend, it did cost a few euros). After removing the chainwheel I unscrewed the plastic bottom bracket end by turning it clockwise. I didn't have proper tool but used big pliers instead. It's very fine treaded so it takes a while to unscrew. I had to take apart the sensor bracket and screw it back other way to get bigger gap once the parts will be in place. (i'll edit the post and add a picture here later, it probably makes this clearer)



Once all the parts were back I noticed that the Brompton didn't fold properly, the sensor prevented the rear triangle to turn all the way. Turning the sensor bracket so that the sensor is on top of the bottom bracket fixed that so I tried the sensor next. There was still one problem, the sensor detected only backward pedalling! I took it apart third time and changed the sensor to the left side of bottom bracket. Now it works as expected.

There is one drawback regarding the controller. If the pedelec sensor is attached, everything works just fine. Instead if there are both sensor and throttle attached, you can override the sensor with the twist throttle. That principally makes the bike illegal in Finland. I would like to have a controller that activates throttle only when you pedal in in the same time.

I have one question for those familiar with Tongxin: there is a thin nut just next to the bearing on the axle, one each side. The other of those two nut is loose, should I tighten it with tool or is hand-tight enoug?
 
Last edited:

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
I have one question for those familiar with Tongxin:[/B] there is a thin nut just next to the bearing on the axle, one each side. The other of those two nut is loose, should I tighten it with tool or is hand-tight enoug?
From memory I think I tightened both of mine hand tight and then used two spanners to tightened them a little more. They are held tight between the forks anyway.

Note one of the nuts has a larger flange to make it sit proud of the circlip so it does not catch it.

Also there is some sealing "gunk" behind the nuts to stop water ingress.

Regards

Jerry
 

trepo

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 19, 2009
20
0
First of all, I'm very sorry this late update. I just have been very busy lately.

The bike is ready to ride but of course there are still some minor annoyances which need to fix sooner or later.

First there is the pedelec sensor. When installing it I had to attach it several times. First there was no gap between the sensor and magnet disk, so I turned the bracket other way just to realize that the sensor now detects only backward pedaling. So I had to change it to the left side like this:



Now the sensor detected only forward pedaling which was fine and seemed to work OK if you lifted the bike and tested it without actual load. But when riding the bike the sensor gives power in bursts (start pedaling, power goes on and then off right away, and the same happens again). Maybe the sensor is faulty, I can see it has been chaffed against the magnet disk (my fault). Because the sensor doesn't work I have installed the twist throttle and it works fine, but I don't like the looks of it a bit. Probably I'll just order a new controller and pedelec sensor plus 3-mode switch and thumb throttle from Das Elektrorad von Frank Scheftlein: Komplette Pedelec- / Elektrofahrrad Umbausätze und Ersatzteile von Bafang, Puma (eZee), Tongxin u.a., they have also dc-dc converters for bike lights that I can use on my other bike.

The motor itself has been running great and I have checked the spoke tension once, they seem to hold equally tight. I used a regular hand file to enlarge the the fork lugs and threaded rod for widening, it was quite easy. I also applied scratch repair paint to prevent corrosion on filed surfaces, Here is the motor on front wheel:

 

trepo

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 19, 2009
20
0
The controller is attached quick and dirty way to the handlebar with cable ties. It is hold there securely but that is not very elegant solution. Maybe I'll try to attach the new controller between the seatpost tube and rear triangle, there seem to be enough space. Here is the controller:



I added a cheap wireless bike computer, it was just a few euros from ebay. Basically it works fine but always when I apple throttle, the readings go nuts (it shows very high speed for a half second). That must be cause of intense magnetic field from the motor magnets. Now the odometer reading is already 300 km / almost 200 miles.

I have loads of these 6s A123 batteries that I use to run the bike, there are 6 more which are actually in use. I have to finish these batteries, there is some more heat shrink tubing coming from China. The batteries are made of second-hand used Dewalt power tool packs which had some faulty cells inside but most were good to go. You can see the balancing lead and a Deans connector which I use to connect the batteries to the bike.

 

trepo

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 19, 2009
20
0
The bike folds nicely if you follow the brake cable route for wiring:



I keep the battery packs on my C-bag rear pockets, there are two 6s packs on each. Those two packs are series connected with a 15 A fuse and the outputs of each "pockets" are then parallel connected. I haven't used any diodes, but probably should add one more fuse after the parallel connection just before the controller because now in theory if both 12s packs are loaded equally the current may reach 30 amps...



My range is about 15 km per each 12s pack, so these 4 6s batteries give about 30 km. I think it is not bad at all compared to my other bike which goes only 7,5 km for one 12s pack.

I also added this Brooks B17 saddle and it starts to feel more convenient the more I ride (we both shape into each other):



Oh one more thing, there was some weird squeeky sound coming from my bike on the other day. At first I thought it came from the motor or bottom bracket, but it was actually the suspension block. I untreaded the bolt and it came out about two turns easily but then it broke in two pieces. The end of the bolt was left inside the nut. I managed to attach another nut to the shortened bolt so the bike is ridable and a new hard version of suspension block is coming here next week. I would have been bought it anyway so that does not matter but apparently you have to take care if you remove the block. I'll make sure to lubricate the new bolt and suspension block thoroughly so I will not have to do that again, at least right away.

As you see there is still more to improve but riding the bike has been very enjoyable. The Tongxin has so little freewheel resistance that you can actually ride the bike without power also.
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
trepo,

Great to see your pics. It also great that now we have so many build threads for EBromptons. Before Dan started a while back there were none.

I am envious of all the 6s1p A123 packs you have, though my two new ones seems to be holding out well.

Glad to hear you are enjoying riding it. The Tongxin is a great motor though it seems it has its weaknesses as well. Fortunately for us, one of its strengths is in the Brompton application.

PS I notice your using the orignal Brompton yellow flash tyres. How are you finding them ? I had a lot of bad luck (several puntures one after another within a few days) with mine and quickly moved to Marathon Plus tyres. Back wheel puntures are bad enough on the Brompton but with the added complexity of the Tongxin front motor, punctures there are a pain to. Note the Marathon Plus tyres are also a bugger to fit on the Sun 36h rims :mad:


Regards

Jerry
 
Last edited:

trepo

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 19, 2009
20
0
trepo,

Great to see your pics. It also great that now we have so many build threads for EBromptons. Before Dan started a while back there were none.

I am envious of all the 6s1p A123 packs you have, though my two new ones seems to be holding out well.

Glad to hear you are enjoying riding it. The Tongxin is a great motor though it seems it has its weaknesses as well. Fortunately for us, one of its strengths is in the Brompton application.

PS I notice your using the orignal Brompton yellow flash tyres. How are you finding them ? I had a lot of bad luck (several puntures one after another within a few days) with mine and quickly moved to Marathon Plus tyres. Back wheel puntures are bad enough on the Brompton but with the added complexity of the Tongxin front motor, punctures there are a pain to. Note the Marathon Plus tyres are also a bugger to fit on the Sun 36h rims :mad:


Regards

Jerry
Hi Jerry,

I have had no problems with original Brompton yellow label tyres. Maybe the roads and cycle paths in our small town are not so harsh for the tyres, I mean there is not so much broken glass etc. which could cause puncture. However I keep plastic tyre levers and patches with me all the time.

Getting the yellow label tyre off the original Brompron rim was easy, but getting it onto the new rim was much harder. I even pinched a hole to original inner tube doing that, luckily I had a spare tube ready. It seems that the inner tube has to be almost empty and you have to use water-soap mixture to lubricate the tyre edge as well. For you it must have been even harder with Schwalbe Marathon tyres.

I have been thinking about the batteries lately... My saddle bag does not fit to the Brooks saddle so I can't put the batteries there. They fit however nicely to my C-bag rear pockets but occasionally I need more space for groceries etc. Do you know it the rear pockets on new 2010 T-bag (slightly redesigned Brompton touring pannnier) are at least the same size?

There are two more, maybe crazy, ideas for battery case:

1. I still have those empty Dewalt battery pack plastic cases. If two black parts are put against each other back to back they can just hold two of my 6s batteries. I could use Rixen Kaul bottle holder to keep the case on top of the main frame tube. I think the bottle holder is even availble with quick release option. This way I could take along a small battery when I don't need any front luggage bag.

2. Another idea is to make a custom-built batterycase into the same location on top of the main frame tube.

I have read somewhere that you could make a cast mould of styrofoam (is this correct name for that white padding found from electronics packages?). It should have 2-3 mm clearance to the frame tube to allow coating but otherwise shape of the case is up to you. The case could follow the curved shape of frame tube.

First layer all over the mould is packing tape or painting to prevent next layer melting the styrofoam. Now you can add a few layers of polyester epoxy and glassfiber mat, probably still leaving the top part uncoated. If you now tape the top edge of bottom half with packing tape you can proceed to make a sort of lid using epoxy and glassfiber. Packing tape prevents the lid to stick permanently to the bottom half.

To get the styrofoam out of the case you'll have to drill a hole and inject gasoline inside. It will melt the styrofoam and the bottom half and the lid should separate. Now just finish the outside surface with some fine putty and paint.

Let me emphasize that I haven't tried this myself and it may be dangerous working with highly flammable gasoline but any way it seems to be one option for making a truly unique battery case.

Edit: Now when I'm thinking this whole battery case thing, it would be easiest to just fix batteries into a spare luggage frame for those times a bag is not needed.

regards

Taisto
 
Last edited:

UrbanPuma

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 11, 2007
675
43
Hi Trepo,

That looks like a very neat job on the Brompton. Any chance you could post a picture of the bike standing so can we can get a full view of it.

Cheers!

Urbanpuma
 

daniel.weck

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2009
1,229
2
Hello, congratulations for your DIY build ! :)
On my Brompton I used a silicon spray can to lubricate the suspension block, which has a tendency to squeak otherwise.
I had to grind the black plastic pedal sensor to make it thinner, otherwise the friction between moving parts was creating a huge amount of drag (easy to check: lift the bike, give a good energetic crank turn and let go...see how long the pedal keeps turning).
I positioned the metal ring (the part that supports the actual electronic Hall-effect sensor) on the frame itself, I will post the photos when I find them again ;)
Cheers, Dan
 

daniel.weck

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2009
1,229
2
I positioned the metal ring (the part that supports the actual electronic Hall-effect sensor) on the frame itself, I will post the photos when I find them again ;)
The duck-tape fixing has been improved since, but you get the idea from the photo of my workaround for the lack of space on the pedal axle:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4825-diy-stage-8-continuous-improvements.html#post61118

There's a ton more photos of my DIY build if you are interested:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4682-diy-stage-1-received-bafang-tongxin-kits-photos.html#post59183