My Bike

[Riche]

Hi, As promised a review/guide to my bike.

It is a Scott p2. 9speed cassette. Nice bike well made. Ive been ridinding it for about year to work 14 mile round trip. My previous bike was carrera subway 2 it lasted about 4 years of daily commutes befor the frame snapped.

Electric kit and wheel, battery supplied by BMSBattery (China).
500w rear wheel drive, 48v10ah, and a 500w 30a controller. (no instructions).
Check the wheel for loose spoke be for you fit and after you done a few mile, mine were really loose!
The customs and excise didnt seem that interested in the box or its contents. DHL shipping is a must and is absolutly awesome, shipping in 3 days door to door. The packing notes said sample bike parts value $37.00 ..

It has taken probably 3 months or so to gather together all the bits n bobs + order the kit etc from china.
I also bought a fitting kit from frank.
As well at the kit you will need switches, wire and a little common sense.

My advice to you is:
If you are wanting to convert 9 speed don't bother with the 9 speed freewheel just go with the standard 7 speed, its alot less hassel and dont look stupid when you wheels dont line up etc and you wont have to stretch your forks.
You will need to get a bush to fit inside the freewheel or a nut? .. I used a bushing from franks kit.

I have used the standard torque washer thingys that came with the kit, I have made some torque washer things so if I need them i can fit in the future. At the moment the axel is a nice tight fit in the dropouts and looks pretty solid. I didnt use franks torque bits as the were not a good fit on the axel ..

The battery bag was a big problem, The Battery is 35cm long I wanted a nice tidy topeak mtx trunk bag which was supposed to be 36cm long but when it arrive it measured 31cm .. go figure .. Then I ordered a topeak dry bag which was supposed 38cm long ... that turned out to be 31cm too .. someone needs to teach topeak how to use a ruler.
I ended up in "go outdoors" on friday and found a bag that fitted the bill quite nicely. Just cut the plastic rings holding the shoulder straps then use zip ties to fasten to carrier.

Heres some photos

The bike goes very well 29mph on flat no pedeling goes up hills like they ain't there. I've probably done around 20 miles or so on it now .. I just love it ..
Not the cheapest way to build a bike but not as expensive as a lot of others.

Riche

 

[kitchenman]

Nice one Riche. The bike looks great. So., how much was the conversion roughly? ... or exactly! ..

 

[Riche]

Hi Kitchenman
I think you are probably looking at around £560.
Kit including Battery £450.00 (bafang 500w wheel, 48v 10ah Lifepo4, 30amp controller & 4ah charger)
Freewheel £20
Franks Kit £30 (although I only used one bushing).
Switches £20
Battery Bag £32
Rack £25
I guess it took around 2 - 3 hours to fit. Then another hour or so fine tuning(moving controls n stuff about).
BTW I wouldn't touch a topeak rack with a barge pole. Mine has started to bend already. The battery weighs about 5.5kg

 

[Kudoscycles]

Riche...I find it interesting that you are able to commute 14 miles to work and all without going onto public roads,the bike appears to be illegal in so many features,surely you are not risking it's use on the road-if you had an accident you would not be insured and you would be cannon fodder for any prosecution counsel.
We are currently engaged in both product and public liability negotiations with one of the biggest insurance companies in the world,these negotiations are quite complex and the overiding requirement that all bikes must meet EN15194. Considering our parent company,namely Rally Design,supplies parts to rally cars that perform at 150mph they are more concerned about these bicycles at 15mph. If an illegal bike has an accident insurers will remove liability insurance and that will hurt the e-bike industry badly-if you think I am being unduly alarmist then look at the kit car industry-there was a bad accident with a powerful kit car,the whole industry had it's insurance pulled immediately and now the industry has no liability insurance.
I see a bike locally that travels at over 25 mph down cycle tracks,with no sign of pedalling if I can catch that guy I will report him to the police immediately before he hits a pedestrian,imagine if that was a child-our governments have been very sensible with the EPAC and EN15194 regulations and we should all abide by them before the freedom we enjoy with these bikes is removed by insurers.

Dave
Kudos Cycles

 

[Scimitar]

<pats totally illegal 750W bike fondly>
I'll stick with what suits me, thanks.

Riche - I like the throttle and on/off switch, where did they come from?
Nice job overall, btw.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi Dave on off switch E Bay £12.20

BIKE-IT UNIVERSAL ON / OFF STOP ,KILL SWITCH MX ENDURO | eBay

Frank

 

[kitchenman]

Hi Kitchenman
I think you are probably looking at around £560.
Kit including Battery £450.00 (bafang 500w wheel, 48v 10ah Lifepo4, 30amp controller & 4ah charger)
Freewheel £20
Franks Kit £30 (although I only used one bushing).
Switches £20
Battery Bag £32
Rack £25
I guess it took around 2 - 3 hours to fit. Then another hour or so fine tuning(moving controls n stuff about).
BTW I wouldn't touch a topeak rack with a barge pole. Mine has started to bend already. The battery weighs about 5.5kg

Thanks Riche. Thats great.

 

[Riche]

<pats totally illegal 750W bike fondly>
I'll stick with what suits me, thanks.

Riche - I like the throttle and on/off switch, where did they come from?
Nice job overall, btw.

The throttle came with kit, frank and has given a link to the Kill switch.

 

[Riche]

Riche...I find it interesting that you are able to commute 14 miles to work and all without going onto public roads,the bike appears to be illegal in so many features,surely you are not risking it's use on the road-if you had an accident you would not be insured and you would be cannon fodder for any prosecution counsel.
We are currently engaged in both product and public liability negotiations with one of the biggest insurance companies in the world,these negotiations are quite complex and the overiding requirement that all bikes must meet EN15194. Considering our parent company,namely Rally Design,supplies parts to rally cars that perform at 150mph they are more concerned about these bicycles at 15mph. If an illegal bike has an accident insurers will remove liability insurance and that will hurt the e-bike industry badly-if you think I am being unduly alarmist then look at the kit car industry-there was a bad accident with a powerful kit car,the whole industry had it's insurance pulled immediately and now the industry has no liability insurance.
I see a bike locally that travels at over 25 mph down cycle tracks,with no sign of pedalling if I can catch that guy I will report him to the police immediately before he hits a pedestrian,imagine if that was a child-our governments have been very sensible with the EPAC and EN15194 regulations and we should all abide by them before the freedom we enjoy with these bikes is removed by insurers.

Dave
Kudos Cycles

Illegal in so many features? .. Afaik its only illegal in one area (actually it is serveral areas , I just checked)-my bad.
But I still don't think I really need to justify anything to you or explain my cycle route.
I am pretty happy with the choices I have made on my budget.
Rich

 

[NRG]

Dave, EN15194 is not law at this point AFAIK, the 1983 regulation for EPAC is still in force I believe...

Richie's bike probably fails to comply on the power output, the assisted speed, lack of identifying plate and throttle only capable assistance...

Nearly all of the available bikes today including yours will invariably fail at the power output specification...

 

[Fordulike]

Riche...I find it interesting that you are able to commute 14 miles to work and all without going onto public roads,the bike appears to be illegal in so many features,surely you are not risking it's use on the road-if you had an accident you would not be insured and you would be cannon fodder for any prosecution counsel.
We are currently engaged in both product and public liability negotiations with one of the biggest insurance companies in the world,these negotiations are quite complex and the overiding requirement that all bikes must meet EN15194. Considering our parent company,namely Rally Design,supplies parts to rally cars that perform at 150mph they are more concerned about these bicycles at 15mph. If an illegal bike has an accident insurers will remove liability insurance and that will hurt the e-bike industry badly-if you think I am being unduly alarmist then look at the kit car industry-there was a bad accident with a powerful kit car,the whole industry had it's insurance pulled immediately and now the industry has no liability insurance.
I see a bike locally that travels at over 25 mph down cycle tracks,with no sign of pedalling if I can catch that guy I will report him to the police immediately before he hits a pedestrian,imagine if that was a child-our governments have been very sensible with the EPAC and EN15194 regulations and we should all abide by them before the freedom we enjoy with these bikes is removed by insurers.

Dave
Kudos Cycles

I think you'll find that members of this forum who build their own bikes, whether legal or not, tip to the side of being pretty sensible people.
I doubt that it is in their minds to be reckless on a bike, no matter what speed it goes.
It's the idiots that are riding round on stolen mopeds, and the numptys who can't control their dogs on the cycle paths that need to be reported to the police.
I certainly don't condone reckless riders of bikes, but there are far too many other crimes to worry about than some bloke having a bit of fun on his bike.
Anyway you'll never catch that guy as he'll be doing 10Mph more than you

 

[Kudoscycles]

I convinced my insurers that these bikes were not overly powerful and generally are ridden by an age group that is sensible,unless I have incorrectly read Riches posting he declares that his bike will do 29mph on the flat with no pedalling,unless he has invented a perpetual motion machine I read into that he is still assisted at 29mph. Why do I care, because I want this industry to have a future - the bike featured is exactly the type of bike which has caused the chinese to ban these bikes in 4 chinese cities,they cannot cope with the deaths and injuries. There appear to be 2 retailers in the UK who openly state that their bikes are illegal but continue to sell them for 'off road use only'-that will not be a legal protection in the event of an accident,I doubt if either of those suppliers have liability insurance.
What I cannot understand is why you would wish to build illegal bikes,I find that within the limitations of EN15194 the bikes are still fun-they meet the needs of what they are intended, to offer electrical assistance to the riding experience with a chosen level of power,they still offer a fitness potential.If you want more power buy a moped or registered electric scooter.
What concerns me is that if any serious accident occurs,especially if a second party is involved then all these e-bikes will be 'tarred with the same brush' and the e-bike industry will be more regulated and controlled.
Why can't you have your fun,within the law!!!!!
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[oigoi]

IMO people build and ride bikes with illegal power levels because they feel the power level that is legally permissible is limiting. It is still safe to ride an ebike with more than 250W, a reckess rider on a 200W bike is more of a danger than a sensible rider on a 1000W one.
Look at what americans are allowed to have - their legal ebikes have a lot more power than our legal ones and I doubt very much it causes any more accidents.
It comes down to the european bureaucracy and nanny state times we live in. Ooh dont let the people have too much power they might hurt someone, when realistically there are far greater risks - I could go and pass my driving test and jump into a bugatti veyron and kill someone

 

[Cyclezee]

There appear to be 2 retailers in the UK who openly state that their bikes are illegal but continue to sell them for 'off road use only'-that will not be a legal protection in the event of an accident,I doubt if either of those suppliers have liability insurance.
What I cannot understand is why you would wish to build illegal bikes,I find that within the limitations of EN15194 the bikes are still fun-they meet the needs of what they are intended, to offer electrical assistance to the riding experience with a chosen level of power,they still offer a fitness potential.If you want more power buy a moped or registered electric scooter.
What concerns me is that if any serious accident occurs,especially if a second party is involved then all these e-bikes will be 'tarred with the same brush' and the e-bike industry will be more regulated and controlled.
Why can't you have your fun,within the law!!!!!
Dave
KudosCycles

Hi Dave,

I think that you will find that the majority of electric bikes on our roads are not strictly comply with the letter of the law in regard to power output or maximum speed assistance.

If all Kudos bikes are supplied to conform with legal regulations and assistance does not exceed 25 km/h, I don't think you need have any personal worries, but I do understand your concern.

How someone rides or modifies a bike after you have sold it is surely outside your control just as much as the way people drive cars or motorcycles is.

I do hope you will be as vigilant about reporting all speeding offences and illegal activity to the police, not just cyclists. You could be very busy.

Personally, I am more concerned about reckless and inconsiderate road users using any mode of transport in a manner that may cause harm to themselves and others.

Finally, would you care to name the 2 retailers you allude to in your previous post?

 

[Scottyf]

I ride faster on the flat and down hill than with an electric bike.

I think there are greater risks to consider.


Anyway nice build and the battery should last for years. Although a 30amp controller with a 10amp hr lifepo4 battery is probably pushing the C rating.
I don't know many lifepo4 cells that have a C rating of 3 and above.

 

[Cyclezee]

I ride faster on the flat and down hill than with an electric bike.

I think there are greater risks to consider.

Sorry to be pedantic Scotty, but I assume you mean that you ride faster with a non electric bike

 

[wurly]

Nice conversion Riche. It looks like you have made an ideal commuter bike.
I presume the motor is a 500W BPM?
Do you know what code the motor is?

 

[Riche]

Wurley it is the bafang 500w BPM , not sure about code but I think its Code 10, 398 RPM? At the time of ordering the 201 was not available.
I was advised that theses motors are most economical running at 50% so my thinking was if the bike is capable 30mph then cruzing along around 15mph would get me the best mpa.

Scottyf
The battery has a discharge current rated 30-60 amp, when ordering I had to choose the higher rating or the BMS order would fail. I have not had any problems so far, although I have probably only done around 50miles or so.
Riche

 

[NRG]

These motors are most efficient when running at near to or max RPM, they drop to about 60~70% efficiency at half RPM!

You may have confused this with the best hill climbing speed which is approx. half of the top RPM where good torque is being generated along with good forward motion....as the speed drops below half RPM the motor becomes even less efficient and turns the available battery energy more into heat rather than forward motion.

 

[Riche]

Theres does seem to be a little power band between 15 and 22 mph .. But today I kept speed at around 15mph +-2mph with pedaling and the battery used 2ah on a 7 mile journey so I guess I should be able to get 2 days transport to work and back on one charge? . 10ah battery.

The fan on the charger is annoying my work mates, can anyone recommend a quiet replacement fan?