Mushy brakes

[anon4]

I have a falcon spark with mechanical disks, no matter how nice I have them set they feel super mushy. The stopping power is really good but it's hard to judge because I can't feel them bite properly, this results in the odd rear wheel lock. I suspect cable compression and lever flex. As I understand my options are

Change cable housings to better ones and perhaps change the calipers too

Convert to hydraulic which would require new sensors and a general pain in the bum

Anyone else had brakes like this?

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[Deleted member 4366]

The front brake does all the braking, so you only need to change one brake. you can leave the switch on your rear cable brake. That leaves the way to put a hydraulic one on the front. You can fit any branded one, like Tektro, Shimano, Juicy, Avid, Magura, etc. It's a 5 minute job to fit one, and it'll be the most rewarding 5 minutes of your life you spent in terms of what you get for it. Once you have a hydraulic disc brake, you'll never want to go back to anything else.

 

[anon4]

I agree but would still like modulation in the back, back brake is still useful in certain scenarios. Either way changing to hydraulics involves accessing the controller to disconnect at least one brake lever, so why not do both? There are sensors available that work with your existing brake levers. Still its an idea as I would more realistically afford one at a time. If I could improve my cables in any way as I have had far better sets in the past I'd rather do that for the sake of not faffing with the geeky bits

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[Deleted member 4366]

I don't have brake sensors on my bike, and I don't miss them, though some bikes have crappy controllers that cause the motor to run on a bit after you stop pedalling. You need at least one brake switch on them.

Other things you can do to improve the braking are:
Try different pads
Fit a bigger rotor plus caliper adaptor
Change the caliper to a double-action one

IMHO, it's simply not worth wasting money on those things when a HDB doesn't cost much and gives a much better improvement to all of those put together.

 

[anon4]

Mine does run a little after stopping, not a lot but noticable. So it would still be pretty safe without those sensors I suppose

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[gray198]

I have just fitted hydraulic brakes to my Freego. Didn't refit cut offs and haven't missed them. I read somewhere that for a normal 250w motor it was safe to do so

 

[Wisper Bikes]

As long as your bike has a 12 magnet disc it's absolutely fine. Even if it only only has a 6 magnet disc you won't have much of an issue. It's pretty unlikely that you will brake and pedal at the same time, just watch out that the motor could remain active for another 2 or 3 metres after you have stopped pedaling.

All the best, David

 

[anotherkiwi]

I have a hydraulic front v-brake and mechanical rear with HW brake switch. This setup is good enough to prevent me from needing/wanting disk brakes.

I agree with d8veh, hydraulic on the front will give you better sensation on the mechanical rear also. You can of course improve cable etc, I swapped out my rear Tektro for an Avid digit which is a huge difference.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I forgot to mention that if your brake is mushy, most likely it's not adjusted properly. Watch the disc in the caliper as you apply the brake when stationary. If you can see the disc bending to the side a bit, you need to completely set it up properly, which means:

• Loosen the two radial screws that hold the caliper on;
• Turn the static pad adjusting screw in the back until the gap is just wider than the disc. Note that there's often a tiny grub screw in the edge that locks it, though 9 times out of 10, they forgot to lock it;
• Pull the brake lever to fully engage the brake. While holding it on, tighten the two radial caliper screws.

You need to do this procedure quite regularly, which is another reason to fit hydraulic brakes. Hydraulics never need adjustment. I didn't touch mine in 4000 miles and three years until I figured that the pads must be getting worn because I heard a rubbing noise. When I pulled the old pads out, they were only half worn, but there was a build up of crud around them that was causing the rubbing noise. I removed the pads for cleaning, so I put the new ones on. That's me good for another 3 years or more.

 

[anon4]

As long as your bike has a 12 magnet disc it's absolutely fine. Even if it only only has a 6 magnet disc you won't have much of an issue. It's pretty unlikely that you will brake and pedal at the same time, just watch out that the motor could remain active for another 2 or 3 metres after you have stopped pedaling.

All the best, David

Its a 12 magnet. I noticed pedaling backwards also kills the motor, so there's something

I have a hydraulic front v-brake and mechanical rear with HW brake switch. This setup is good enough to prevent me from needing/wanting disk brakes.

I agree with d8veh, hydraulic on the front will give you better sensation on the mechanical rear also. You can of course improve cable etc, I swapped out my rear Tektro for an Avid digit which is a huge difference.

Hmm interesting, hydraulic front and a good back brake and keep a sensor, might be the way forward

I forgot to mention that if your brake is mushy, most likely it's not adjusted properly. Watch the disc in the caliper as you apply the brake when stationary. If you can see the disc bending to the side a bit, you need to completely set it up properly, which means:

• Loosen the two radial screws that hold the caliper on;
• Turn the static pad adjusting screw in the back until the gap is just wider than the disc. Note that there's often a tiny grub screw in the edge that locks it, though 9 times out of 10, they forgot to lock it;
• Pull the brake lever to fully engage the brake. While holding it on, tighten the two radial caliper screws.

You need to do this procedure quite regularly, which is another reason to fit hydraulic brakes. Hydraulics never need adjustment. I didn't touch mine in 4000 miles and three years until I figured that the pads must be getting worn because I heard a rubbing noise. When I pulled the old pads out, they were only half worn, but there was a build up of crud around them that was causing the rubbing noise. I removed the pads for cleaning, so I put the new ones on. That's me good for another 3 years or more.

Honestly I've had disks before. I'm no expert but they are aligned and close enough that they should feel decent enough. It's worse on the rear which further leads me to think it's the cable housing flexing, braking kicks in early on the lever but pulling further feels "empty" even though it ends up locking the wheel up. You can feel the bite point on the front a bit better but it's still a muted feeling. As I've said, performance is excellent, they just feel like crap and hard to modulate compared to others I've used

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[chris_n]

It's pretty unlikely that you will brake and pedal at the same time, just watch out that the motor could remain active for another 2 or 3 metres after you have stopped pedaling.

All the best, David

Got to disagree here, if you are riding down a road with tight corners or maybe hairpins then you are constantly changing your foot position so the inside one is high. As we know you shouldn't pedal a deraileur backwards so therefore we are pedalling forwards and braking at the same time, I must have done this 50 times today alone!

 

[D C]

It's pretty unlikely that you will brake and pedal at the same time

True, generally speaking but it can happen that the freewheel or cassette system can seize which then means you can't stop the chain rotating, you have to think pretty quick and continue peddling forwards to prevent the derailleur winding up and throwing the slack chain into the spokes. I've experienced this on an un-powered bike but could be a lot more problematic with a rear drive motor if you haven't got a brake cut out or at least a kill switch.
Dave.

 

[Benjahmin]

I have a hydraulic front deore and mech rear, works well for me. Good feel on the front and, having upgraded the cables and pads, on the back too. I kept the cutout switch because there are many junctions around here that are downhill on approach but slope up to pull away. So I need to be changing gear as I approach but don't want the drive at that point. This is where the brake cut off is essential.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I have a falcon spark with mechanical disks, no matter how nice I have them set they feel super mushy. The stopping power is really good but it's hard to judge because I can't feel them bite properly, this results in the odd rear wheel lock. I suspect cable compression and lever flex. As I understand my options are

Change cable housings to better ones and perhaps change the calipers too

Convert to hydraulic which would require new sensors and a general pain in the bum

Anyone else had brakes like this?

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

We used to have a similar issue with cable brakes on our SE bikes, it didn't matter how well the brakes were adjusted they were always a little soft, particularly on the folding bikes, We discovered as you suggest, it was brake cable compression and movement.

We have now changed all the cables on our non hydraulic disc brake bikes to Jagwire. The change in the performance of the brakes particularly the twin discs on the folding bikes is unbelievable,

IMO Jagwire cables are worth every penny. If you haven't yet come to a solution, I suggest changing your cables first. You will be surprised at the change.

http://jagwire.com/products/diy-cable-kits/2017road-pro-brake-kit

All the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Got to disagree here, if you are riding down a road with tight corners or maybe hairpins then you are constantly changing your foot position so the inside one is high. As we know you shouldn't pedal a deraileur backwards so therefore we are pedalling forwards and braking at the same time, I must have done this 50 times today alone!

Good point Chris, I do exactly the same, somethings to be aware of. I should say that on the Torque sensor bikes it wouldn't bee an issue and in the majority of cases the amount of movement needed to balance the position of the pedals whilst banking on a corner wouldn't be enough to set the motor off again once it has stopped.

All the best, David