Multiple questions, help..! Which controller can I use?

[Zakinak]

First post

I have a super 73 sg1. I've attached a throttle on to it, if you google it you'll see it's definitely not good for pedaling so not having a throttle is not really an option. My speed has recently been limited to 20 mph and I'm wondering what I can do to de restrict it, I was working with 24mph up until a couple of weeks ago and then the guys that sold me the bike updated the software without letting me know (took it in to have brake pads changed). Super 73 are not able to de restrict it or provide me with an american controller, I'm on my own basically.

I'm wondering if anyone knows if I'm able to just buy another controller and hook it up? Or will I need to buy another motor as well? It's a 250w 48v motor. (I'm assuming my throttle and display can still be used regardless of the controller) I've seen that with some Bafang motors you can change the speed restrictions and other things. Does anyone know more about this and if it's only available on mid drives?

Another question I have is the battery I am using slots into the controller. Will this be a problem if I buy a new controller, if so would I have to buy a new battery and mount it separately?

Struggling to find answers to these online, any retailers seem to only stock and be knowledgeable about mid drives. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[vfr400]

That's a very strange story. Did they really do a software update or just set the speed limit? It looks like standard Chinese stuff that doesn't need or have any software updates. Why would they set it to 20 mph when the legal limit is 15 mph? None of that makes sense. You should ask the shop exactly what they did and why.

Show us a photo of the LCD. maybe we know how to do the settings.

 

[Zakinak]

The shop in C London are not the actual manufacturers of the bike, they can’t undo the software update because they don’t have access to the American software, they can only upload the software they’re given by the manufacturers. The bike comes with a speed limit of 15.5mph but I purchased an American controller from the manufacturers when I initially bought the bike by It’s no longer possible to buy this controller from them.

I believe there was some changes made to the way the pedal assist behaves, previously the pedals acted as a throttle of sorts, you would just start pedalling a little bit and it would kick in at 100% power getting all the way to max speed, max speed lower/higher depending on the mode you’re in. Now (I’m sure there’s a name for this) the pedal assist goes off how fast you’re pedalling.

I’m pretty certain that they didn’t just limit the bike. I took the bike into the shop initially because the motor had broken, me changing the controller to the American controller rendered my warranty void and so they had no obligation to replace my motor. However, the mechanic didn’t exactly understand what was going on and that I had a different controller and void warranty (I didn’t actually bring it in to have the software changed, they didn’t tell me they were going to update any software, they were supposed to just change the brake pads and replace motor, I’m actually very annoyed by this - and they can’t undo as don’t have the software they changed as mentioned earlier) and so replaced it anyway...

 

[vfr400]

That all sounds like complete hogwash. It's a standard motor and battery, so I'm sure the controller is standard too. Motors are extremely robust. I very much doubt that you broke it. Running it faster does it less harm than running it slower, so your faster controller didn't do anything to the motor unless it gives higher current too, but even that's not likely to break the motor. What makes you think that the motor was broken if your bike was running when you took it in for new brake pads?

As I said, show us the LCD.

What you described about the pedal assist is how any cheap Chinese controller works.

 

[DBye]

@Zakinak Please can you confirm this is your bike:

The Super 73 Scout e-bike is a city cruiser for the future

Like riding a tiny motorcycle

www.theverge.com

And that this is the display: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/j8GQKk8UAcUE8tU0Feo2WWsl0wU=/0x0:2040x1360/1320x0/filters:focal(0x0:2040x1360):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8840473/sokane_1842_super_73_scout_9229.jpg

 

[Zakinak]

@Zakinak Please can you confirm this is your bike:

The Super 73 Scout e-bike is a city cruiser for the future

Like riding a tiny motorcycle

www.theverge.com

And that this is the display: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/j8GQKk8UAcUE8tU0Feo2WWsl0wU=/0x0:2040x1360/1320x0/filters:focal(0x0:2040x1360):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8840473/sokane_1842_super_73_scout_9229.jpg

That is not the exact model but for intents and purposes I think it's safe to say yes that's my bike. Mine is an SG1, scout is more entry level. Yes I can confirm that is my LCD.

edit: I'm pretty sure they will have the same controller, lcd and motor which is why I say safe to say yes, but this is my bike, and the retailer I purchased from.

 

[vfr400]

Standard Chinese with standard settings. P08 is the speed limit setting.

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I'm not sure how to enter the settings. Try press and hold "M" for about 10 secs or until the screen changes to settings. Do that within a few seconds of switching on.

I would guess that you have the controller in the battery base. They're normally potted, so difficult to replace. I'm not sure, but I think that there's a fair chance that you can remove the controller's guts from the aluminium case and screw it into the compartment in the battery base if ever you need to replace it. That's for the smaller controller and less likely for the bigger one.

The motor is standard, so you can use whatever controller you want as long as you can find a way to mount it. It looks like yours has the waterproof connectors. You can find controllers that have them too. You normally have to replace the LCD with the controller because there can be compatibility issues between different LCDs and controllers.

 

[Zakinak]

That all sounds like complete hogwash. It's a standard motor and battery, so I'm sure the controller is standard too. Motors are extremely robust. I very much doubt that you broke it. Running it faster does it less harm than running it slower, so your faster controller didn't do anything to the motor unless it gives higher current too, but even that's not likely to break the motor. What makes you think that the motor was broken if your bike was running when you took it in for new brake pads?

As I said, show us the LCD.

What you described about the pedal assist is how any cheap Chinese controller works.

Sorry, should have given some more info. The bike wasn't running at the time, the motor (or something...) was spinning freely inside the motor so when I put the throttle down the bike didn't move, but something inside the motor started to spin. The bike was definitely busted. I ride it quite hard and am not fussed about having to change the motor once a year or so, sometimes I'm off road and riding up hills with bumps which I don't think is great for it.. and I think the american controller gives it more power suddenly and is tuned to a 500w motor, so if I don't ease the throttle down I get a clunk or 2 which I understand to be bad . I think I just did this too many times and it eventually broke. Again, not particularly fussed about this, happy to replace the motor every once in a while.

downloadable video of the broken motor here:

Apologies, didn't see your request for a pic of the lcd - DBye posted a picture of it above.

 

[Zakinak]

@vfr400 so I've gone into the settings (always known how to get in here but didn't realise I could change some speed settings here.......)

I can increase the speed in increments of 1km/h up to 33 kmh (20.5mph) and then it won't go up any higher, I had it on 20.5mph to begin with so no change there. However, I've changed the tyre size to 20 inch where before it was on 22, I changed this setting ages ago and forgot about it... So now I'm getting just over 22mph which is a decent increase considering my max before was 24mph.

If I've been on 22 this whole time then maybe I could have been going even faster before the software changed???

Does anyone know if there's a possibility of a maintenance port or something? So I can plug a computer in and try to mess with the settings? Or is this a fool's errand..?

 

[Zakinak]

Just spoke with the guys at the shop.

I would be unable to get into the settings of the bike by hooking the bike up to my pc or something like that because I don't have the software that super 73 provide. However, from the sounds of it these components are nothing special and I probably don't need that software specifically... Might it be possible for me to somehow get my hands some compatible software and upload it..? I'm out of my depth here just thinking out loud really.

 

[anotherkiwi]

You usually change the settings by a series of button presses but a manufacturer can load their specific settings using a cable connected from another controller. Or most likely a serial cable and a PC in the factory.

 

[vfr400]

You can buy the 500w controllers that are free from restriction. Some of these are KT controllers that need a compatible KT LCD. You'd have to open up yours to see who's version you have.

Do you have the one into four cable from the controller to the handlebars?

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[Zakinak]

@anotherkiwi I can get into the settings on the lcd but there is a speed limit of 20.5mph and I can't select a higher one, pressing up again just cycles back down to the lowest setting of 6 ish mph.

Is it possible to reset the controller? Had a look for a pin reset button but doesn't seem to be one there.

@vfr400 if by one into four you mean something like this then no I don't believe I do. Also my battery connects to the controller with 4 pins shown in the video. Would it be possible to get one of the other controllers because of this? Looks like a cable connection to the battery with the other ones...

video of the controller and wires

If this is just a standard chinese controller do you think it might be possible to download the software somewhere online and just re upload the stock software to my controller? It seems I had the stock software before and now super 73 have made some custom adjustments and that's what's been uploaded. Any ideas?

 

[vfr400]

I suspect that there's more settings. When you're in the settings menu, try holding the "M" button for a long time to see if it goes further.

The video doesn't work. Can't you put it on Youtube?

 

[anotherkiwi]

I can increase the speed in increments of 1km/h up to 33 kmh (20.5mph) and then it won't go up any higher, I had it on 20.5mph to begin with so no change there. However, I've changed the tyre size to 20 inch where before it was on 22, I changed this setting ages ago and forgot about it... So now I'm getting just over 22mph which is a decent increase considering my max before was 24mph.

Maybe the real issue is that your battery is no longer capable of providing enough volts for those extra 3.2 km/h?

 

[Zakinak]

@anotherkiwi the power cuts out at 21.8mph, it’s a limit put on the bike, in the settings I can’t turn the max speed above 20.5mph (goes to 21.8 because changed wheel size) will

@vfr400 will post a video later

 

[anotherkiwi]

On my hub motor the power cuts off at that speed too even if I set the cutoff speed to 72 km/h in the settings. Its winding doesn't let it go any faster. If I increase the voltage a bit it will go faster. Many Bafang (and other) motors are wound for a top speed of between 27 and 33 km/h*, if you connect a 48v battery to a 36v motor it will spin 33% faster - 36 to 44 km/h. If you have a 48v motor you will need to up the voltage to 60v or 72v to go faster and you will need to start thinking about motor cooling and other issues at those voltages...

* when the battery is near empty the motor will not assist over and beyond the legal 25 km/h

 

[vfr400]

On my hub motor the power cuts off at that speed too even if I set the cutoff speed to 72 km/h in the settings. Its winding doesn't let it go any faster. If I increase the voltage a bit it will go faster. Many Bafang (and other) motors are wound for a top speed of between 27 and 33 km/h*, if you connect a 48v battery to a 36v motor it will spin 33% faster - 36 to 44 km/h. If you have a 48v motor you will need to up the voltage to 60v or 72v to go faster and you will need to start thinking about motor cooling and other issues at those voltages...

* when the battery is near empty the motor will not assist over and beyond the legal 25 km/h

What he's saying is that his LCD doesn't allow him to set the speed any higher. He can reach the speed at which he can set it to. Previously there was no limit to the max speed setting, so he could reach his motor's max speed.

 

[Zakinak]

@vfr400 exactly, thanks. Any thoughts on trying to download software? Came across this which looks like it could be interesting but I'm not sure how I'd connect my bike..

 

[vfr400]

If you don't mind risking a bit of money, you could try the bluetooth adapter and software. See this thread. You could ask mechaniker about it. He knows these controllers very well. I think he's done some development with Li Shui.

Lishui Bluetooth Controller, programming the easy way

Lsihui Controller developed a Bluetooth Controller for IOS and Android Smartphones Even someone with no Computer-knowledge is now able to programm the controller just by a finger-wip at IOS or a finger-tipp at Android Smartphones We have put different language inside english, german, chinese...

www.pedelecs.co.uk