Motor resistance?

[waj1234]

Just been out and done 15 miles this morning on my XF08 equipped bike that I fit last week

One thing I noticed is I find it hard to ride on setting one and to a lesser amount in setting two. Even switched off I find it much harder to maintain 12 to 14 mph on the flat under my own steam like I used to be able to.

Will the motor give any resistance to make it harder to ride or is it just down to extra 12kg of weight and my perception? I could not go out and use it without it turned on now really compared to before conversion.

On setting 3 I can maintain 14mph like I could on flat before but struggle to do so on 1 and 2. Is it normal? If it is I am tempted to remove and sell the kit and return my bike to standard to use as is and buy a new off the shelf bike so I have both.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Something doesn't sound right. You mentioned additional,weight of 12kg. Normally, it would be about 6kg.

You can see immediately whether you have any motor resistance, by lifting the wheel off the ground and spinning it. You can normally feel where any resistance is coming from. In most cases, it's the brake. Sometimes it's the cassette or freewheel rubbing on the frame, and sometimes it's washers rubbing on the cassete or freewheel.

It's very rare for anything to be wrong with the kit and you should be able to pedal without power similar to how it was before except your acceleration would be about 5% less and you'd have to pedal 5% harder on any upward incline.

 

[waj1234]

I only assumed the extra weight to be honest based on what similar full e bikes weigh at around 22kg, my calibre was 13kg prior.

I will have to try it with wheel off ground as it deffo feels much harder to ride unassisted than it was before.

 

[waj1234]

Just checked and there seems to be no resistance in the free wheel or the cassette to be honest so not sure if it is indeed my perception of it. Never had a problem maintaining a decent speed on the flat but I do with it in 1 or 2 for sure. Maybe it is just the extra weight that makes me feel that way.

I think it will be coming off soon anyhow and sold just the same.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Did you check both wheels?

 

[waj1234]

Did you check both wheels?

Lol yeah. I made sure both disc calipers were centered and running free last week when I fit the kit. Both wheels seem to run smooth and free.

It deffo feels like the motor is holding me back on level 2 but again it may be a combination of the extra weight, my fitness and the perception of it after riding with assist on etc.

I love how it feels on level 3 for a full ride to be honest and after 15 miles I still feel like I have had a workout for sure. I feel a bit like I did after a 15 mile ride when I was in my 20's un assisted rather than totally knackered now at 47.

I will just have to use it on level 3 most of the time.

 

[Benjahmin]

This seems to be a common comment from those newly converted. I posted something similar myself a couple of years ago. Sometimes motors can be a bit tight when new, but this soon runs in. My hub is perfectly free running after 4000 miles.
That marvellous kick from the motor is sorely missed over the cutoff speed. Suddenly you are riding through treacle. All I can say is this is something you get acclimatised to. Now I turm the power off on decsents or flats, turning on again as soon as I feel more 'weight' than I want on the pedals.
If you are used to cycling at 16mph+, then maybe an e bike is not for you. Or you could see if it's possible to derestrict your kit, at the cost of legality.

 

[waj1234]

This seems to be a common comment from those newly converted. I posted something similar myself a couple of years ago. Sometimes motors can be a bit tight when new, but this soon runs in. My hub is perfectly free running after 4000 miles.
That marvellous kick from the motor is sorely missed over the cutoff speed. Suddenly you are riding through treacle. All I can say is this is something you get acclimatised to. Now I turm the power off on decsents or flats, turning on again as soon as I feel more 'weight' than I want on the pedals.
If you are used to cycling at 16mph+, then maybe an e bike is not for you. Or you could see if it's possible to derestrict your kit, at the cost of legality.

I don't go at 16mph on the flat more like 12 to 14mph. A lot less going up hill lol which is why I wanted to convert. I made too many excuses before as I know which hills kill me. It just feels strange in level 2 as I don't seem to be able to maintain the same speed I could before the kit on the flat.

If it frees up after some miles I will see but I have a feeling it's coming off and I will attempt to sell it even though it will be at no doubt a considerable loss.

I may buy a new complete e bike though or I may just force myself to get out on a non e bike and force myself back to fitness the old way.

I love the feel of it in level 3 and above I must admit though.

 

[D C]

Something very odd going on by the sound of it. I have the exact same kit and often ride several miles with the power off. There's absolutely no resistance and without load the wheel spins for ages on mine.
I tend to use 1 for the most part, only going higher when I really need to.
I don't try to keep to a steady pace but mainly average around 10 to 12 mph as I like to look at the scenery.
Could it be that you're using 3 or more at the start of your ride then going down to 1 or 2 later on, that can give the illusion of being hard to pedal.
I previously had a Cyclotricity front wheel kit fitted to the same bike and this one is far more powerful though a little less smooth being a sensor-less motor.
With 15ah battery my kit is nearer to 6kg than 12kg, did you go for a larger battery?
I'm sorry you aren't happy with the kit as I'm one of the folk who encouraged you to go for it rather than a ready made bike.
Why not contact Whoosh again and see if they can advise on what may be happening.
Dave.

 

[waj1234]

I think your right it is probably my perception of it to be honest. I just assumed the weight based on what e bikes weigh and what mine weighed before conversion so your right its around 6kg heavier so still under 20kg total. It feels heavier than I have been used to since steel frame days.

Maybe I needed a kit much less than I expected and I am fitter than expected and I just needed to stop making excuses lol.

I am gonna take it off in the morning and try my bike without on the same ride to compare, that's if my wheel fits ok with the dropouts filed deeper.

If I prefer the feel of my bike without the kit I will just attempt to sell it, though I can see it hard to sell being used. Or as an alternative I may try and sell the complete bike and just buy a new one.

 

[Woosh]

if you can pedal pretty fast, then use a higher assist setting.
Assist level 1 is programmed for you to get some exercise, assist level 2 gives more than 1 but still reduces out the assist at around 13mph. D8veh usually can explain how rotational systems work better than I.
If you switch off the power, you can instantly feel how much the motor helps.
Don't worry about power consumption at higher assist level. It will always be the difference between what is required to move the bike less your own input. You can estimate the power consumption by the fluctuation of the voltage sag.

 

[waj1234]

if you can pedal pretty fast, then use a higher assist setting.
Assist level 1 is programmed for you to get some exercise, assist level 2 gives more than 1 but still reduces out the assist at around 13mph. D8veh usually can explain how rotational systems work better than I.
If you switch off the power, you can instantly feel how much the motor helps.
Don't worry about power consumption at higher assist level. It will always be the difference between what is required to move the bike less your own input. You can estimate the power consumption by the fluctuation of the voltage sag.

Think I will first remove the whole kit and try without. If I prefer the feel of the bike without I will try and sell the kit and just push it up hills until I get fitter lol.

I think it is my perception only and as I have never tried any other e bike I do not know what feel correct or if it was faulty or not etc as never had anything to compare it to.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I have a Mxus and my experience was like yours in the beginning. It takes about 100 km to loosen up and for you to get used to the weight. Don't forget to check spoke tension at about 100 km too.

Then:
Assistance 1 provides about 60 W and is enough to cancel out the extra weight you have put on the bike (just shy of 7 kg)
Assistance 2 riding around on the flat up to legal limit, most used level if you are fit
3 slight inclines, normal assistance level if you are heavy/unfit
4 bigger hills
5 pulling away from the lights and any hill you need to climb.

Gearing is just as important on a hub bike as on a mid drive, gear it wrong and you will lose range. With the Mxus bike I was often pedalling at 32 km/h and often used Assistance level 0.

 

[waj1234]

I have a Mxus and my experience was like yours in the beginning. It takes about 100 km to loosen up and for you to get used to the weight. Don't forget to check spoke tension at about 100 km too.

Then:
Assistance 1 provides about 60 W and is enough to cancel out the extra weight you have put on the bike (just shy of 7 kg)
Assistance 2 riding around on the flat up to legal limit, most used level if you are fit
3 slight inclines, normal assistance level if you are heavy/unfit
4 bigger hills
5 pulling away from the lights and any hill you need to climb.

Gearing is just as important on a hub bike as on a mid drive, gear it wrong and you will lose range. With the Mxus bike I was often pedalling at 32 km/h and often used Assistance level 0.

I have done 80 miles on it so far in the 8 days since fitting it.

 

[anotherkiwi]

OK so you have a perception issue... I think that it comes from the bike being harder to launch from a dead stop with the extra weight. Try hypnosis "I can pedal to 25 km/h, I can pedal to 25 km/h..."

My old bike weighed 20 kg and the current mid-drive one over 25 kg but it no longer worries me after +2 years and +6000 km. My trike weighs 16.6 kg without the motor, so 23+ kg when I fit it! The same motor you have but in the freewheel version.

 

[waj1234]

Think I need to try it without the kit again to see which way I prefer. I may not have needed a kit at all and it is down to me being lazy not going out lol.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I understand it now. Your controller uses speed control, so in the lower levels (1 and 2), it doesn't assist all the way to 16 mph. When you reach the top assistance speeds which will be something like 10 and 12 mph, power is cut, so pedalling becomes much harder. The difference between power on and off gives the illusion of suddenly riding through treacle. I think that you're going to find that riding your bike without any power is not as easy as you imagined, and you'll soon be reinstalling that kit.

 

[waj1234]

I understand it now. Your controller uses speed control, so in the lower levels (1 and 2), it doesn't assist all the way to 16 mph. When you reach the top assistance speeds which will be something like 10 and 12 mph, power is cut, so pedalling becomes much harder. The difference between power on and off gives the illusion of suddenly riding through treacle. I think that you're going to find that riding your bike without any power is not as easy as you imagined, and you'll soon be reinstalling that kit.

I think if I keep at it and get my fitness level back I will be fine with kit removed to be honest. The ride i did today at 15.5 miles I did in 1hr 12 mins and 2 year ago I used to do same ride in 1hr 20 ish although a bit more knackered than today lol

 

[D C]

I understand it now. Your controller uses speed control, so in the lower levels (1 and 2), it doesn't assist all the way to 16 mph

Mine which is the same kit from Woosh doesn't have speed control and I don't think there's a setting to change it unless it's hidden. I get power all the way up to 16mph in all settings.
Factory speed setting can be changed according to instructions on Woosh website, It's unlikely but could it have been set to 16kph by mistake?
Dave.

 

[waj1234]

1 and 2 do not assist up to 16mph that is for sure. I have max speed set to 25kph as it came from whoosh. I tried it at an higher setting just on the estate then set it back to legal setting.