Most powerful eBike for long uphill journeys?

[topographer]

It's not boring, sad and pathetic. It's moving...and probably not an uncommon scenario. I had a similar request: read the thread, you may find it interesting. http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/what-climbs-steep-hills-slowly.27790/

I've decided to be less fussy because the one 16 or 17% hill I wanted to climb can be avoided or gone round the long way at a more manageable 9%. You're more constrained. A very useful thing to know is that the thing that gets you up hills—torque—increases as wheels get smaller. A bike with 16" or 20" wheels needs a lot less force to pull you up a hill than one with 26" wheels. I've decided not to get a small-wheeled bike because I want the option of going off road but with your narrow requirements you should be OK with them.

I think I know the perfect bike for you. This one. It's currently sold out but that happened before and they re-stocked a few weeks later so I think you'd just have to email them and ask about it. The seller claims it can do 15 degree hills (over 26%). I wonder if he's confusing degrees and percent. Anyway, with 48v of power and small wheels and your light weight I think it would be ideal. The seller seems to have accepted offers of £530 too, so it's cheap. I nearly bought it myself until I decided I wanted big wheels. Good luck.

 

[topographer]

Hello IL,

for your requirements and budget, may I suggest the Woosh Santana CD.
It has a crank drive motor, its climbing performance is outstanding, you can rely on it to take you home on throttle.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?santana-cd

If you are taller than 5ft8, the Woosh Bali may also be worth a look.

Tony

Really? Looking at your own motor charts (http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?motorcharts) the Sirocco CD looks like a much better climber than the Santana but you don't have it now do you? Are you going to replace it with a new model?

 

[Woosh]

Really? Looking at your own motor charts (http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?motorcharts) the Sirocco CD looks like a much better climber than the Santana but you don't have it now do you? Are you going to replace it with a new model?

this is the £999 Santana CD:
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?santana-cd

It has a powerful motor, 18A controller, not far off the power of the Bosch CX, and a throttle.

compared to the Sirocco CD, the new motor on the Santana CD has a bit more torque.

this is the motor on the Sirocco CD:

The Sirocco CD has been replaced by the Krieger two years ago.
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?krieger

 

[Zlatan]

The only thing to do is borrow one and give it a try. I have a Haibike hard seven.weigh 105 kg ( me not the bike) and I have been staggered at bikes climbing ability..(I suppose I,m fit for a 63 yr old big bloke but not that fit)

I tried a few hub drives 10 years or so ago and IMO they didn't compare with current crank drive stuff..

Just for comparison, last week I was coming up hill from Yorkshire Bridge ( near Bamford) towards dam wall. I had 25 kg son on wee rider on Haibike. Hill is probably 1 in 5,and 2/3 of a mile long.Didnt have bike in bottom gear but was on highest setting. There were 3 Lycra clad mtb experts ( on none ebikes) trying to overtake us. They didn't , and were all fairly knackered at top. I wasn't even breathing heavy..they couldn't see battery as grandsons seat covers it!! They wern,t impressed when informed why I could beat them...( Grandson says Bradley Wiggins lives in battery)
I had a dongle on mine, climbing ability no better but range shorter. Took it off. ( was on when purchased)

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I tried a few hub drives 10 years or so ago and IMO they didn't compare with current crank drive stuff..

That's funny because I tried a crank drive from 10 years ago and it wasn't a patch on the current hub-motors. I wonder why that is?

 

[Zlatan]

That's funny because I tried a crank drive from 10 years ago and it wasn't a patch on the current hub-motors. I wonder why that is?

So exactly how many hub drive emtbs are there on market nowadays ? Recent trip to Lake Garda and I didn't see one but perhaps 1 in 4 bikes were emtbs..Thats even funnier.

 

[Woosh]

So exactly how many hub drive emtbs are there on market nowadays ?

I have the same $114 Q128H kit that d8veh talked about in several threads.
It represents the modern rear geared hub:

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/776-q128h-48v800w-rear-driving-e-bike-motor-wheel-ebike-kit.html

yes, it's not a mistake, it's £100 wheel plus freight and VAT.
The full kit including battery and delivery costs me about £400. I put it on one of my workshop bikes.
You get a bike that can compete against the Bosch CX, it can output nearly 800W, 28mph max speed, climbs 20% gradient and consumes about as little juice as the CX. All of that with easy pedaling and a throttle.

 

[Zlatan]

I have the same $114 Q128H kit that d8veh talked about in several threads.
It represents the modern rear geared hub:

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/776-q128h-48v800w-rear-driving-e-bike-motor-wheel-ebike-kit.html

yes, it's not a mistake, it's £100 wheel plus freight and VAT.
The full kit including battery and delivery costs me about £400. I put it on one of my workshop bikes.
You get a bike that can compete against the Bosch CX, it can output nearly 800W, 28mph max speed, climbs 20% gradient and consumes about as little juice as the CX. All of that with easy pedaling and a throttle.

Thought throttle was illegal ? And 800w is not nominal 250w ?
I was probably being a bit niave but assumed any advice on here should be for legal kit ???
It sounds a great piece of kit and very cheap but crank drive is always going to have gearing benefits ???
Reckon Haibike consumes at max 300w , my 400wh battery lasts at least 2 hrs,very hard working. Consuming 800w you would need 1500 wh battery for similar duration...
????
But pm me your details and I,ll build one to compare. I,ve got a normal mtb I rarely use.
Cheers.

 

[Woosh]

I was probably being a bit niave but assumed any advice on here should be for legal kit ???

we discuss theoretically of course.

It sounds a great piece of kit and very cheap but crank drive is always going to have gearing benefits ???

yes, CD bikes will always have a little advantage when you go on very steep gradients but anything below 15%, the Q128H will match the CX.

Reckon Haibike consumes at max 300w , my 400wh battery lasts at least 2 hrs,very hard working.

I think the CX will burn 600W+ if you push it hard enough.

If you want to buy one of them, follow the link to bmsbattery.
I can't sell you one, by law, I have to offer warranty

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Reckon Haibike consumes at max 300w

You're way off. it's around 750w at full power.

 

[soundwave]

You're way off. it's around 750w at full power.

POWER

 

[Zlatan]

You're way off. it's around 750w at full power.

That makes my Haibike even cheaper then, its 400wh battery must be at least 800wh..great news.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

That makes my Haibike even cheaper then, its 400wh battery must be at least 800wh..great news.

I'm not sure how you're calculating that but it's not right. Your motor consumes about 750w from the battery at maximum consumption. If you could keep it like that, it would consume a 400Wh battery in less than half an hour.

 

[Zlatan]

I'm not sure how you're calculating that but it's not right. Your motor consumes about 750w from the battery at maximum consumption. If you could keep it like that, it would consume a 400Wh battery in less than half an hour.

Exactly, but it doesn't. Your 750 w must be some theoretical or bench tested figure. In use there must be something limiting it. ( Perhaps the rider?)

 

[Woosh]

Perhaps the rider?

I agree. The rider puts in 25%, the motor/battery 75% or less.
You need to be pretty athletic to squeeze the last pip out of a Bosch CX.

 

[Zlatan]

I agree. The rider puts in 25%, the motor/battery 75% or less.
You need to be pretty athletic to squeeze the last pip out of a Bosch CX.

Mines Yamaha but same applies.
I,ve often wondered the energy requirement ( in rral terms) of a 100 kg rider going up a 1 in 4 even slope at say 6mph...I suspect actually quite low ?
I,ve noticed on mine I,m going up hills at 11mph where none electric I was going up at 4 or 5...( for similar out put from me)
If I,m willing to trundle up at same speed on Ebike ( ie 4mph) my input is negligible...
And on energy usage ( total) I,ve noticed little difference overall. Going up quick uses lots over little time. Going up slowly uses minimal but for much longer. I stick mine in high power , forget it, go as quick as poss ( with dongle removed) and get great range.

 

[chris_n]

Mines Yamaha but same applies.
I,ve often wondered the energy requirement ( in rral terms) of a 100 kg rider going up a 1 in 4 even slope at say 6mph...I suspect actually quite low ?
I,ve noticed on mine I,m going up hills at 11mph where none electric I was going up at 4 or 5...( for similar out put from me)
If I,m willing to trundle up at same speed on Ebike ( ie 4mph) my input is negligible...
And on energy usage ( total) I,ve noticed little difference overall. Going up quick uses lots over little time. Going up slowly uses minimal but for much longer. I stick mine in high power , forget it, go as quick as poss ( with dongle removed) and get great range.

@900W according to http://bikecalculator.com

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Exactly, but it doesn't. Your 750 w must be some theoretical or bench tested figure. In use there must be something limiting it. ( Perhaps the rider?)

Its not calculated. It's measured with a wattmeter.

 

[Zlatan]

So how does my 400wh battery last at least 2 hrs.. Quickest I,ve ever run it down is 1hr 40...that was constant uphill for 9 miles or so...( think about 3000ft height gain)

 

[Woosh]

zlatan,
if you weigh 100kgs and your bike 20kgs, you ride up a hill for 9 miles, gaining 3000ft (900m) elevation, here is the required potential energy:
E = mgh = (100+20) * 9.98 * 900 / 3600 WH = 300WH
Adding to this, your bike needs some 12WH * 9 = 108WH for the roads.
Total: 408WH
It will depend on your selected assist level, if you use climb mode, you put in 25%, the bike 75%. The motor on the bike will run at around 80% efficiency, your battery consumption will be:
= 408WH * 0.75/0.8 = 382WH
Your battery is pretty much drained by the time you get to the top.
If you use a lower assist on some of the route then you saved some battery.