MINI Folding Bike

[flecc]

Trouble with the motor from your 26" bike if you used it is that it would be 23% slower in a 20" wheel. If legal at present you'd only get under 12 mph in the smaller wheel. Best to keep both if at all possible.

 

[catsnapper]

Hi Jerry,

I've not adjusted the spring tension to lift the change speed, I was testing it without to see if it was realistic to leave it as is.
With the larger wheels shown in the pic, it changes at around 7.5 mph, quite handy round here in busy traffic on narrowish hilly roads.

I've used both the varieties of Sturmey and Automatix with and without the cruiser brake. I much prefer the Automatix, the change is very smooth and the braked version is much nicer than the equivalent Sturmey unit.
I bought a batch of Automatix hubs from the US, so if anyone is interested in purchasing one I've a couple left in stock at a very good price for forum members. They're designed for 120mm dropouts, but come complete with spacers for 130mm. I've also used them spaced to 135mm.
Gear ratios: 1:1 and 1:1.37, Weight is 980gms.

The fork dropout on the modern Dahons are all 80mm (the wheels in the pic have a respaced Brompton hub), although I've changed one custom Dahon to 100mm spaced carbon fork.

C.H White sell a Dahon Speed Pro/TT Frame Cro-mo Steel Mango (Ahead type) frame with 135mm spacing for £100, if anyone fancied starting from scratch.

This is another Automatix equipped bike (no coaster brake) intended for use with an Ezee front hub. This changes gear at around 11.5 mph.

Alan

 

[jerrysimon]

Just checked Alan's reference to C H White is worth a look if you are interested in folding bikes!

I am going to have to pop in there when I go to Bath next time.

C.H White sell a Dahon Speed Pro/TT Frame Cro-mo Steel Mango (Ahead type) frame with 135mm spacing for £100, if anyone fancied starting from scratch.

That would be a fun project for sure


Regards

Jerry

 

[cwah]

The fork dropout on the modern Dahons are all 80mm (the wheels in the pic have a respaced Brompton hub), although I've changed one custom Dahon to 100mm spaced carbon fork.

Alan

I've read in a lot of forum that dahon rear dropout is very ofte 133 mm. Some people converted a dahon and reported a rear dropout of 133 mm. Has that changed since?

 

[catsnapper]

I've read in a lot of forum that dahon rear dropout is very ofte 133 mm. Some people converted a dahon and reported a rear dropout of 133 mm. Has that changed since?

I've not met many, if any, Dahon frames where the dropout is actually the correct standard width, usually a mm or 2 under, but this applies to a lot of frames - some under, some over.

Manufacturers such as Surly make their steel frames at 132.5mm to take either 130mm road, or 135mm MTB hubs, so I doubt if I'd be worrying much about 133mm.

Alan

 

[morphix]

Oyama?

What's the vibe with Oyama? I know they're a Taiwanese outfit but the bikes look like a budget price alternative to Dahon and compare favourably on weight? There's some fantastic deals at moment on some models like the 3-speed hub St James (12.8kg), at £249. I like the look of the Oyama Crosstown (11.2kg) but its a bit steep at £500 (and that's the sale price, normal price is nearly double!). Even at that price point I think Dahon looks more appealing.

C.H White sell a Dahon Speed Pro/TT Frame Cro-mo Steel Mango (Ahead type) frame with 135mm spacing for £100, if anyone fancied starting from scratch.

That's really cheap compared to the cost of a fully-built one. I rather like the look of that bike too and its very light. Does make a lot of sense starting from scratch I plan to remove many parts and change the wheels, tyres and probably remove gears anyway if I buy a ready built.

 

[catsnapper]

What's the vibe with Oyama? I know they're a Taiwanese outfit but the bikes look like a budget price alternative to Dahon and compare favourably on weight?

I bought a mid-range Oyama in a CR sale for my son's girlfriend. It was heavy, with a lot of rather basic steel parts, including what looked and felt like a cast iron left crank. I replaced the front wheel and rebuilt the rear one, plus quite a few other bits of sorting out.
It rode quite well, but it was not as good as the Dahon Uno - or as light.

I've built a couple of folders from scratch with the Speed Pro frame. If you intend to build it as a true folder you'll need some of the Dahon parts such as forks and handlepost, but most other parts are fairly standard, and you can use better quality than the sometimes iffy Dahon parts.
C H White also sell the narrow 80mm front hubs at an ok price if you want to build your own wheels, or if you want more spokes a respaced Brompton 74mm hub from SJS can be used.


Alan

 

[morphix]

Those Downtube bikes look nice and light and the addition of suspension is a plus. Reasonably priced, but sadly no proper dealers in UK and shipping direct from US is prohibitively expensive.

Basic model without suspension (10.8kg), a merely $300 in choice of colours:

Full-suspension model £444 8-spd derailleur or £500 8-spd hub (12.5kg) available from their sole UK dealer (been showing as awaiting stock for months and months, e-mails go unanswered):

Shame there aren't more dealers for these bikes. I had a quote on shipping from the manufacturer in States and they quoted me the same cost as the bike just for shipping! Plus VAT and Duty to be added onto that of course. Does anyone know a cheaper way of shipping them?

 

[RoadieRoger]

Morphix I have a 20in. wheeled Folding Batribike which is too low geared , I presume to make it easier to ride home without power when the battery fails . It is certainly not fast , on medium assist which I mainly use , I only manage to put 10 miles into every hour , riding at a comfortable pace .If I use maximum assist and pedal like mad , I can just about reach 15 mph , but can`t keep it up for long . It may be my age at 73, as over 50 years ago my single speed Hercules easily did 12 miles in the hour . I`m pretty sure my 20 year old GT Talera Mountain bike will cover 15 miles in the hour now .Trouble is since getting the Ebike I haven`t ridden it to find out ! I also have a 32 year old German Folder and Jerry your worry on the hard ride isn`t bourne out as the U frame is quite springy .This machine has no suspension and is all steel and heavy .
Going back to the Batribike Folder , the Agent at Malmesbury was altering the gearing of this machine to overcome the low gearing issue and charging £100 extra for the revised machine .This was 18 months ago when I bought mine .

 

[morphix]

Morphix I have a 20in. wheeled Folding Batribike which is too low geared , I presume to make it easier to ride home without power when the battery fails . It is certainly not fast , on medium assist which I mainly use , I only manage to put 10 miles into every hour , riding at a comfortable pace .If I use maximum assist and pedal like mad , I can just about reach 15 mph , but can`t keep it up for long . It may be my age at 73, as over 50 years ago my single speed Hercules easily did 12 miles in the hour . I`m pretty sure my 20 year old GT Talera Mountain bike will cover 15 miles in the hour now .Trouble is since getting the Ebike I haven`t ridden it to find out ! I also have a 32 year old German Folder and Jerry your worry on the hard ride isn`t bourne out as the U frame is quite springy .This machine has no suspension and is all steel and heavy .
Going back to the Batribike Folder , the Agent at Malmesbury was altering the gearing of this machine to overcome the low gearing issue and charging £100 extra for the revised machine .This was 18 months ago when I bought mine .

I had the exact same issue with gearing on my 26" folder which was 21-spd. I ended up taking it down to 6-spd and moving the chain so now it's highly geared in 6th gear and gears cant be changed! It's the ONLY way I can pedal and keep up with the motor on full power which is where I prefer to leave it. Maybe I'm lazy and should start putting more effort in, or perhaps I'm just a speed freak. I do always seem to be in a rush to get somewhere. I can comfortably maintain 15mph without effort and pedaling hard gets me to around 20mph.

 

[catsnapper]

If cost wasn't an issue I'd be tempted to build a lightweight folder/tourer with one of these frames:
AIRNIMAL Chameleon FRAME ONLY :: £664.00 :: BIKES :: Folding Bikes :: Spa Cycles, Harrogate - The touring cyclists specialist.

A small motor and couple of lightweight LiPo packs could make a versatile bike that was light enough for assisted and non-assisted riding.

Hmmm....I wonder if..


Alan

 

[jerrysimon]

Alan,

I too have look seriously at those bikes. They kind of fall in the middle, not full sized and not really a folder though I agree a great tourer. The Airnimal Chameleon wheel 24"/520 size is a bit obscure though and thus has limited tyre options. Not sure if you could fit a more standard sized rim like 24"/ 507 ?

I think for the money a Moulton TSR offers a better buy starting at around £950 complete with belt drive. Its sprung both ends, is more portable and the ones with more gears make great tourers.

Regards

Jerry

 

[catsnapper]

I think for the money a Moulton TSR offers a better buy starting at around £950 complete with belt drive. Its sprung both ends, is more portable and the ones with more gears make great tourers.

Hi Jerry,

I quite agree, the Moulton is certainly a more practical and better priced option - I'm frequently tempted, but I've way too many bikes already.

I built an Airnimal fixie using a frame I picked up at a good price in Germany. I used a non-standard fork with 507 wheels - the rear didn't need a brake. The handling was excellent, it was a fast little bike, but my son decided it was the ideal bike to carry upstairs to his apartment in Barcelona - unfortunately it was stolen a few weeks later.

Alan

 

[jerrysimon]

Oh dear sorry to hear it was stolen. I always fancied a ride of one.

I have a five bike count at the moment (eTSR2 & eBrompton, two old Raleigh MK3 Moultons with one on its way out and a Pashley FoldIT with retrofit Moulton APB/TSR forks).

If I had to have only one, it would be the Brompton.

Ideally I would not like any more than three, so at four I won't get another unless something special comes along. Never say never though I guess.

Regards

Jerry

 

[catsnapper]

Hi Jerry,

The next 2 replacements were also pinched within a few weeks
After that I built him a 26" black Dahon folder fitted with Pitlocks and supplied with a very heavy New York lock and a 'how to lock your bike' youtube link....

The Airnimal was probably the nicest fixie I've built. I've built up another 3 in the last year, but none had as nice handling.

Agreed, 3 bikes is probably the right number, but somehow it never happens. I think I'm back up to 8 again.
e-tandem, ordinary tandem, e-BMX, the Uno, a couple of fixies, the Pompino and an urban knock about.
The latter bike is fitted with one of these units: METROPOLIS components
Probably my current favourite way of having 2 gears, I was thinking of using it with an 11 spd Alfine hub, but now I'm wondering about an Ezee motor on the bike.

Alan

 

[morphix]

Those Downtube bikes look nice and light and the addition of suspension is a plus. Reasonably priced, but sadly no proper dealers in UK and shipping direct from US is prohibitively expensive.

Basic model without suspension (10.8kg), a merely $300 in choice of colours:

Full-suspension model £444 8-spd derailleur or £500 8-spd hub (12.5kg) available from their sole UK dealer (been showing as awaiting stock for months and months, e-mails go unanswered):

Shame there aren't more dealers for these bikes. I had a quote on shipping from the manufacturer in States and they quoted me the same cost as the bike just for shipping! Plus VAT and Duty to be added onto that of course. Does anyone know a cheaper way of shipping them?

As a follow-up to this, if anyone is interested.. Downtube's the UK distributor does have the above bikes but they seem to be an older (previous year) model with chrome stem and handlebar instead of the black pictured, (unless their website needs updating) although I haven't been able to confirm this, as they don't answer any messages or e-mails.

There is a decent review (PDF Alert!) carried out in UK by Velo Vision Magazine (who also publish Electric Bike Mag) in 2008 on the 9FS model. Incredibly they were selling in the UK for £199 (Nova model) originally and £360 for the 9FS at the time of the review, and that was for direct shipping from the States and even included VAT. How they managed that and made a profit I have no idea! Prices have increased a fair bit since then.

In a nutshell after looking at the reviews...they seem to be well built, lots of thought has gone into the design and they provide a nice comfortable upright ride with wide telescopic handlebar with bars on...but the weak spots are that the folding is not very tidy due to the wider handlebar (needs to be strapped or bagged to prevent opening)...and the size folded was at the time of the review a bit bigger than some Dahons. I think a full suspension 8-spd hub gear at the price point offered tho (£500) is very good value for money.

Interestingly the Downtube bike company is a one-man outfit started by mathematics professor Dr. Yan a cycling enthusiast who has cycled right across America. He designs the bikes and sells them himself direct by mail order but has opened a few stores in the States and got a few international distributors. Turnover is around $3 million.

 

[catsnapper]

Downtube has had a strong following in the US from people looking for a decent quality, modest priced folder.
There is a long (6 years!) thread on bikeforums.net about them, including comments from Dr. Yan, the founder:
Downtube folding bike

For Jerry and anyone else interested in Dahon Uno/Moulton/belt drive/Automatix hubs - this is a link to Bruce Metras, generally regarded as the guru and skilled modifier of these items
Bike Forums

Alan

 

[morphix]

Thanks Alan I'm reading that thread with interest, great to see more user reviews..I'm seriously poised to buy one I think but it's a bit more than I had planned to spend (I'm a skinflint when it comes to spending money). I think its worth spending an extra couple of hundred though if you get a decent bike that rides more comfortably rather than spending £250 on something from Taiwan. £450-£500 is my absolute limit tho, I just couldn't spend the crazy £800+ prices Dahon and other brands command for similar spec bikes.

 

[jerrysimon]

For Jerry and anyone else interested in Dahon Uno/Moulton/belt drive/Automatix hubs - this is a link to Bruce Metras, generally regarded as the guru and skilled modifier of these items
Bike Forums

Thanks Alan. I post on the folding bike forum and have read alot of Bruce's excellent write ups there.

As I said I am a little disappointed with the S2C. I have one of the original F&S / Torpedo DUOMATIC ones on my old Raleigh Moulton MK3 town hack and it runs flawlessly. There have been numerous compaints about them and both of mine are early production models for which S/A have replaced the internals for people who have complained.


Regards

Jerry

 

[catsnapper]

Hi Jerry,

I thought you might be familiar with Bruce Metras
I had a few varieties of the S2. Fortunately only one was a bit iffy, but a minor rebuild and adjustment cured it.

I like the Automatix, but the appeal of the 2spd Patterson crank is it's ability to keep the correct chainline with an alfine hub (135mm OLD). On a frame that would normally only take a max 32t chainring at that alignment, it allows an effective 45t in top with an actual 28t ring.
With a front or rear motor it gives a decent 2spd range for unassisted or assisted pedaling, if the top gear is set to around 75"

Alan