Mid-drive chain and drive train wear measurements

[matthewslack]

At 5941km, I am doing a deep clean of drive and rear wheel areas ahead of chain and cassette replacement, and bearing adjustments. I know there is interest in the accelerated wear of drive train components on mid-drive ebikes, so I thought it might be interesting to put up some pictures and numbers.

This is my first ebike, all but 4km have been ridden by me, so I know its history in some detail. No parts have yet been replaced, the nearly 6000km includes commuting in all Scottish winter weather conditions on muddy, wet potholey land rover track style roads, with oiling of chain as necessary but otherwise very limited cleaning activity.

Here is the chain laid out nice and straight, lined up by screwdriver at one end and showing stretch at the other.





Excluding the quick link and the first link, that is a smidgen under one link of elongation over 114 links of chain, about 0.8%.

This is a sample size of one, a KMC X9 chain, which I think is a pretty reasonable quality, and under my riding style which focuses on range rather than speed or power, making full use of the gears to keep power requirement and therefore chain force low.

What is normal? I don't know! Is this in line with e.g. fit, powerful, non-electric club cyclists' wear expectations? Does it count as 'high wear'?

Interested to hear other experiences. At £15 for a new chain, and £22 for a 42T cassette, my costs for 10 months use are within my comfort zone.

 

[soundwave]

if you want to look after the cassette then change the chain at 0.5-0.7 max and keep everything as clean as possible for longer life.

 

[AndyBike]

As above, if you replace your chain at a regular interval, it wears less on the cassette. Well kind of, but worn chains kind of 'marry' to cassettes and if left on too long the new chains will slip, which means a new cassette too. Replace often means the new chain wont slip. Cassettes dont last forever, but chain replacement wil help maximise its life.

£42 is a bit of a pain, but my XT 12 spd cassettes cost £160, Chains are £20, so its a no brainer to ditch the chain once it shows any sort of wear.
Have you a chain checker ?.

 

[matthewslack]

I have been slightly remiss in not changing the chain at least earlier, for two reasons: it is bottom end shimano 9 speed, so much less costly, and I want to change the gearing too. New chain is ready to go on, and a 42T cassette, but cleaning the derailleur to find the part number and reading its spec tells me I need to change that too, as it can only handle 36T.

And if I'm changing that, why stop at 42T, I am now thinking!

 

[peter.c]

Buy a derailleur hanger extender adaptor for a few pounds thats a 42t

 

[soundwave]

i use 12spd eagle on my bike but the chains are not cheap at 23 quid but the xx1 chain is like 70 quid and a whopping 2g lighter.

 

[georgehenry]

I run a 9 speed set up and use the same KMC chain as you and you have done better than me. I have not managed to get much more than 2000 miles out of my Shimana HG 400 cassettes.

I ride in an area with quite a lot of sandstone sub strata and crossing these areas can be like riding over loose sand on a beech, and I think that does not help. However I bought six cassettes of amazon prime when they were £12.50 delivered and have still got one to go.

I also used my bike to commute cross county to work and then rode home on the road without being able to clean the drive train. My bike could assist above the limit and going home I used more power to ride faster to average 20mph and complete 10 miles in half an hour.

This definitely contributed to my highest gear wearing out quicker than the others.

I have now retired and have lowered my bikes gearing, and use it much more off road than on and expect that the drive train might last longer as a result as I now spend much less time in the higher gears with less teeth that are more susceptible to wearing out.

In my last year of commuting I changed my chain once as the old one reached its wear limit and also change my 12 tooth top gear cog and that cassette lasted over 2000 miles, which for me was very good.

 

[soundwave]

believe it or not i have only used 2 cassettes since i bought the bike and sold the old 11spd one on ebay in 2018 as went to 12spd eagle.



i keep it all clean as possible and keep it lubed i dont use chain cleaner just a Wragg with wd40 and use muck off dry and wet lube.

i try to change the chain at 0.5 as after that you can see the gaps in the wide narrow teeth on the eagle cassette so it wont lock on anymore so has to be changed or destroy a 220 quid cassette.

 

[georgehenry]

I do believe you soundwave and am a bit jealous.

Fortunately 9 speed components are relatively cheap.

I think for basic use commuting shopping etc ridden on the road or gentle tracks in areas where there are not too many very steep hills a rear hub bike be best and have the cheapest running costs.

However if you want to ride off road on more difficult tracks a crank drive is much better.

My bikes are now getting on a bit, my Yamaha Crank drive Haibike was bought in 2015, and my two simple rear hub bikes are both 2011 vintage.

I would love to have a go on the Woosh Gran Camino or The Oxygen Mountain bike to see how they cope off road. They might alter my opinion.

 

[guerney]

Well, I've finally had the opportunity to use the Silverline Chain Measuring Tool, which I bought at the same time as my bbs01b conversion kit... and it's showing almost 0.75% wear.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-241092-Chain-Wear-Indicator/dp/B00J3AA1A2/

According to the odometer, my KMC X8 chain has been used for 1,528 miles, so I'm thinking of trying their newfangled E8 EPT version for ebikes. I have no idea if they're proportionately better or longer lasting than the X8, for the 90% increase in price.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/KMC-Unisexs-Speed-Chain-Silver/dp/B08CDY1LLL/

Some Amazon reviewers have reported problems with the E8 EPT. I might just buy another X8 TBH, it rusts and whenever it's visible I simply squirt a bit of 4 in 1 mineral oil over it and it works great. I always buy retail packaged chains from big online shops, hoping that they're not counterfeit.

I've just noticed there's a X8 EPT:

KMC Unisex's EPT X8 Chain, Dark Silver, 114 Link : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

Shop KMC Unisex's EPT X8 Chain, Dark Silver, 114 Link. Free delivery and returns on all eligible orders.

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...which is 137% more expensive than the bog standard X8. I can't see that lasting 137% longer.

Update: I've ordered bog standard X8.

 

[lightning]

l was using all kinds of posh oils on my E-MTB and the chain reached the 0.5 wear limit after about 700 miles. After the second new chain at 1400 miles l had to change the cassette as well.

After that l stopped using the posh oil and just oiled the chain with GT-85 after every ride.

Well what do you know, 1500 miles in and the chain is still only at 0.3 on the chain checker.

GT-85 does claim to be a chain lube, but l always saw it as more of a cleaning product.

 

[Nealh]

Chain snake oils are there simply to make money and catch the gullible, I simply use a gear oil for which a litre at a few quid lasts forever.

 

[soundwave]

i try to keep my chain as clean as possible because if you dont the crap gets inside the rollers and is what makes the chain stretch so keeping it clean and lubed has saved me a fortune.

like ebike branded chains that cost more they are the same thing just at different prices they wont last any longer if you just dont bother to look after the chain and keep it clean b4 every ride.

 

[guerney]

Chain snake oils are there simply to make money and catch the gullible, I simply use a gear oil for which a litre at a few quid lasts forever.

Do you use Aeroshell 22 on your chains Nealh? If so, now that I'm replacing the chain, I could try that.

 

[Nealh]

Too thick and grease is worse then oil, the aeroshell has consistency of lard.

 

[soundwave]

tho the gears do wear out the bearings go first which in turn wears out everything out faster inside a mid drive motor.

m8 has a 750w bafang the gears are fine but it sounds like a bag of spanners as bearings are shot.

my bike has a ses wheel and no matter what bearing i put in it there toast in 3 months and lost count how many times i changed it now but the teeth on the ses wheel is still ok.

 

[guerney]

tho the gears do wear out the bearings go first which in turn wears out everything out faster inside a mid drive motor.

m8 has a 750w bafang the gears are fine but it sounds like a bag of spanners as bearings are shot.

my bike has a ses wheel and no matter what bearing i put in it there toast in 3 months and lost count how many times i changed it now but the teeth on the ses wheel is still ok.

I think my bearings are fine so far - it's only 250W and just running at 15A still. When the time comes to replace bearings, it doesn't look too difficult (famous last words?)

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[soundwave]

gets a bit more complex when it comes to my motor why peter is my motor master

 

[guerney]

Too thick and grease is worse then oil, the aeroshell has consistency of lard.

Lardy gunge sounds wrong for bike chains... I've ordered the Hypoid 90 (80W 90) that you mentioned. I might also try to thin Aeroshell 22 out with some other oil, and make my own unique blend of runny oily chain lard. As you know, I've just now ordered 3kg of Aeroshell 22 because I simply couldn't stomach paying through the nose for tiny tubes of it to grease the bbs01b gears with, because it's probably about time those got greased.

I might try lightly heating Aeroshell 22 using a hairdryer, to see if it melts to thin out over the chain, then wipe off the excess and see how that does, possibly with a layer of mineral oil or Hypoid 90 on top, if it doesn't lubricate enough - it's bound to be a bit more hydrophobic than the 4 in 1 sewing machine mineral oil I normally use. X8 chains arrive covered in a thick layer of wax, the combination might blend together... The rear cassette and chain on my bike are pretty cheap to replace, so I can experiment, especially since the cassette may need to replaced in about a year.

Actually, I'll just use Hypoid 90.

 

[georgehenry]

I haven't tried it myself, but a roadie work colleague who kept his bikes fastidiously clean and rode very high mileages told me that the best way he had found to make his chain last was to completely de-grease a new one and then put it in a wax bath.

He said that all the road dirt could not attach to the waxed chain and it remained clean and uncontaminated. I thought about it but in the end decided it sounded too hard work.