Met Police seize Motor-Assist Pedicabs

[MikeyBikey]

http://road.cc/content/news/130186-metropolitan-police-seize-nine-london-pedicabs-fitted-motors

Don't know what's triggered this pedicab purge, apart from the usual vested interest lobbies, but it may result in authorities taking a closer interest in all elec-assist cycles, so watch yourselves out there!
Maybe this refers to ICE assisted rickshaws or similar?

 

[Geebee]

Nope, from the linked article:

"Superintendent Rob Revill of the Met’s Roads and Transport Policing Command, said: "Operations checking pedicabs that have been fitted with electric motors like this will continue to prevent collisions, as well as reducing the anti-social behaviour associated with obstructing pavements and roads.

"These vehicles have historically fallen outside of the insurance legislation, leaving the public passengers using them exposed to higher levels of risk."

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Jeez! This really shows how underhand politics work. They have to ban them because they're "inherently unsafe". How many accidents can they find? Last month, one rolled over without hurting anyone, and four years ago a pissed-up guy jumped out of one while it was going and killed himself. I wonder how many people were injured in normal cabs during that time?

 

[SRS]

Jeez! This really shows how underhand politics work. They have to ban them because they're "inherently unsafe". How many accidents can they find? Last month, one rolled over without hurting anyone, and four years ago a pissed-up guy jumped out of one while it was going and killed himself. I wonder how many people were injured in normal cabs during that time?

Its nothing to do with safety.
Enterprise is not allowed in this country unless you pay the insurance companies and authorities most of your profits.

 

[flecc]

The reasons why the Met have taken action against these illegal pedicabs now and a number of times previously over the last few years is twofold:

First, the licenced taxi drivers resent the pedicabs so raise the illegality complaints in the first place.

Second, the law restricts e-trikes to 60 kilos weight, and these pedicabs are far, far in excess of that weight.

That makes the seizure and, if necessary, prosecution very easy. That some are using motors far in excess of what the law permits doesn't need to be pursued, avoiding the complications such a prosecution brings.

Here's what I posted on this subject a short while ago:

On the morning of Thursday the 4th December 2008 the Metropolitan Police conducted an extensive operation specifically to seize a number of illegal EAPCs, arresting the riders. The EAPCs in question were trikes, pedicabs operating in London, falling victim to the 1983 EAPC legislation when their riders fitted e-bike motors to make their life easier. Some of the motors were 250 watts, legal for e-trikes only under our law, but others were illegally higher powered. However, all were illegal under our EAPC law which specifies a maximum e-trike weight of 60 kilos which the pedicabs could not meet. That made the prosecution very easy, no complex legal arguments about motor power needed.
.

 

[SRS]

It seems to me that the powers that be look to seizing and prosecution as a solution to anything they dislike.

We are constantly bashed for using fossil fuels.
Why not put efforts in to make these or similar vehicles legal and help clean up our air supply.

The EPAC laws are a bit out of touch with users requirements anyway.

 

[flecc]

The EPAC laws are a bit out of touch with users requirements anyway.

Very true. It will be interesting to see how the DfT deals with this issue when they revise our law on e-bikes to harmonise with the EU.

In the EU there is no weight limit on e-trikes so these could be legal, so long as their motors are rated at 250 watts and conformed to EN15194.

The question is how the powerful London Taxi Drivers Association will react to that and whether the DfT will conform to the EU law or avoid the domestic problem instead by keeping our 60 kilo weight limit in the new law. My bet is on the latter.

I do have some sympathy with the Taxi Drivers. They have to do a minimum of two years of "The Knowledge" to learn all of London's streets and are subject to a wide range of additional laws. In return for that they are protected by traditionally being the only people permitted in law to pick up "fares" on demand, minicabs having to be phoned for.

The problem with the pedicabs is that the authorities, seeing them as a tourist attraction, let them ply for hire as well, untrained and unskilled doing the taxi drivers out of business. I can well understand how galling that might be.
.

 

[SRS]

Flecc

I agree with regard the taxi's getting their noses put out.
2 or 3 years ago we had someone start a Tuk tuk business in Brighton. They were great for nipping into town and popular with the tourists.

The Tuk tuks were of course anything but green.

It was the taxi firms that saw to their demise.

 

[MikeyBikey]

Ironic that pedal powered cab trikes that need it the most are legally prohibited from having electric assistance.
As said above they're over 60kg, Cycles Maximus spec says circa 75kg now, before 85kg.

Maybe a new law to make all cabs electric inside the congestion zone would bring a change of heart *and* cleaner air? ;-)

 

[Kinninvie]

Just apply exactly the same rules to these as to black cabs and the problem will disappear .

 

[flecc]

Ironic that pedal powered cab trikes that need it the most are legally prohibited from having electric assistance.
As said above they're over 60kg, Cycles Maximus spec says circa 75kg now, before 85kg.

Maybe a new law to make all cabs electric inside the congestion zone would bring a change of heart *and* cleaner air? ;-)

The only practical application of e-power to the Cycles Maximus using a Lynch motor and twin SLA batteries ups the weight to 135 kilos. Add rider and two passengers and the weight becomes circa 370 kilos. Sometimes they even carry three passengers so that can go even higher. Should that be under the control of an untested and unlicenced rider?

As for the London taxis, 2018 sees the introduction of the Metrocab Hybrid taxi, running on electricity with a smaller supporting i.c. engine, so a gradual step towards a cleaner vehicle. The problem with e-power only for taxi use is lack of range and duration, something like a Nissan Leaf would run out of juice at a little over two hours. Long ranges have only been achieved with sports cars like the Tesla carrying very little payload.
.

 

[Emo Rider]

What is needed here is an even playing field. Let the trikes weigh what they do and let them power to meet power requirements. At the same time license the trikes and their operators. Make the operators take all of the training and licensing required by taxi drivers. They are providing the same service and customers should be getting the same quality of service. Register the trikes and require a yearly mot. It is all about safety. Then the taxi drivers will have nothing to complain about now that the trikes are legitimate.

EXCEPT now the trikes are their direct, legal competition. The trikes are cheaper to purchase, cheaper to run and maintain, and users will probably use them because they are green. They will not have to pay congestion tax. They will see the demise of the traditional taxi ranks, first in the cores of major citys and spread from there. Traditional taxis will still exist but most traditional operators will find themselves on a trike trying to compete.

Be careful what you wish for taxi drivers.

 

[flecc]

I don't think the last part is possible Emo Rider. David of A to B magazine is a very powerful rider, but he found the e-power version of the Cycles Maximus to demand very high rider inputs even in the essentially flat Castle Cary area on the Somerset Flats. A bit of a slope could be almost too demanding, even just with small children on board.

With a maximum speed of 8 mph and the average speed far below that and near to walking pace, as a London taxi they could not cover any appreciable area so could never replace the conventional cab.

Personally I don't think pedicabs should ever have been allowed. London is already too congested and the last thing it needs is vehicles travelling at less than half the current average. In addition, India and some Far Eastern countries have been trying to discourage their use due to the crippling strain they put on the riders, often resulting in sudden deaths. It's well known in London that riders are only the young yet still only last a season usually, having to give up due to the extreme physical stress.

A Lynch motor helps, but 4kw peak doesn't do much when pulling near 400 kilos, and it only generates that much power at near stall speed.
.

 

[Emo Rider]

For general use, trikes described by flecc, probably are not realistic. However there are probably many select and lucrative areas where a trike of custom design would be feasible. These "low hanging fruit" areas are probably the ones most contested by cabbies. The very fact that operators are using powered trikes speaks of their modest sucess.

 

[flecc]

The trikes are very much a tourist thing, used by those not knowing the closeness of their destination, they don't stray far. The short lived attempts at using e-power are more from desperation to cope with the workload than covering any larger area. As usual, the range and duration can't cover anything like a working day, powered or unpowered they spend much of their day static awaiting fares coming to them at selected central locations.

For workload and/or range reasons, they can't cruise for fares like taxis so will always be unable to provide coverage to meet the general public's taxi need.
.

 

[MikeyBikey]

"The GO-Cab is a super cargo bike with electric support in which eight children can be safely transported". And v.cute, even if not for adults!
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=ORcQxw0Qz3M

 

[Emo Rider]

"The GO-Cab is a super cargo bike with electric support in which eight children can be safely transported". And v.cute, even if not for adults!
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=ORcQxw0Qz3M

Indeed!

 

[flecc]

Here's a working link:

 

[MikeyBikey]

4million estimated worldwide in 1980's, but only 11 in Amsterdam with elec-assist for the hump-back bridges! So appear to be licensed, limited, and subsidised tourist attraction. ..While locally.."In 2006 Transport for London commissioned a consultation in respect to the growing number of pedicab but due to unfavorable impositions on the industry and London’s cab drivers association utter rejection of a license for pedicabs; The project was dropped by the London mayor, though a current review by the law commission is expected to dictate some amendments which may create a future license". But what does Wikipedia know?

 

[RobF]

The problem with e-power only for taxi use is lack of range and duration
.

"Do you know what I had in the back of the cab?"

"A load of bleedin' batteries, that's what."