Me seen that A to B again!

[PowaRider]

Many thanks David.

As you know I couldn't agree more - it is important that suppliers operate within the current rules if we are to avoid risk of further restrictive regulation and of course they know this. I think it is likely that more suppliers will follow your lead regarding the approach to features such as 'off-road' buttons for example. Perhaps the ETRA proposal for a review of the current regs will result in multi-tiered classification for electric bikes and light electric mopeds into which current and emerging products will fit - certainly a one size fits all approach is not what the industry or the customer wants. Fingers crossed!

Hi emmissions-free - The A2B Metro off-road 'boost' button increases powered speed to 20mph.

 

[emissions-free]

Hi Powarider

Only 20mph, not so fast...

You're both quite right of course, you have to stick within the rules. Hopefully like you say the rules will change to allow some different classifications to allow the bikes to have a little more speed and improved hill climbing ability in the future.

 

[Straylight]

Perhaps a scientific approach to clasification would be to use a percentage of a very fit athlete's power output to set the maximum power of an e-bike's motor. For example, a little cursory research indicate's that Chris Hoy's peak output is somewhere around 2.4kw, if a study was done into the average peak of mere mortals like us, and one subtracted from the other to give a maximum combined output of no more than an olympian can deliver, then we may end up with a justifiable peak power for an ebike motor. Anything over this would naturally fall into the classification of a motorbike.

Thoughts?

 

[emissions-free]

2.4kw would be nice.... and quite nippy

 

[carpetbagger]

i think the 'rules' should stay as they are.Most people buy an ebike because they can't pedal an unassisted bike or hills are a problem...if you want to go faster then buy a moped or motorbike.If we have classifications then we will get to the point where an ebike is as fast as a moped/motorbike without the structural strength/brakes/lights to cope.

 

[Straylight]

Fair point, which is why I thought to use peak output, as this is easier to determine than the current rules which talk about continuous power output, which is a term that can be played around with somewhat. I wasn't proposing this as a means to enable e-bikes to become unlicenced speed machines, simply as a way of providing a clear deliniation.

 

[carpetbagger]

its a bit like the national speed limit,currently 70mph but upto 80mph you won't get stopped or fined but if you up it to 80mph it will either be zero tolerance or an actual 90mph before slapped wrists....the same applies to ebikes..whatever limit there is somebody will always want to take it that little bit further....and the consequences of unisured ebikes bombing around everywhere doesn't bear thinking about.....unless.........it is a direct replacement of cars.....

 

[flecc]

I too like the rules as they are and will only shift that view if e-bikes become a large scale market in the UK.

My reasoning is that as things stand, considerable licence can be and is taken with power outputs without anyone in authority noticing, or where they do notice, not bothering to do anything about it as with the "off-road" buttons they don't do anything about.

This way I can have my "250 watt" rated production e-bike which in reality is capable of well over 700 watts of continuous power from the whole of the battery charge without technical problems or interference from the authorities. And that one horsepower is good enough for one adult any day as horses regularly demonstrate.

Of course if e-bikes ever become a major market with very large numbers on the road, that will change and action will be taken to enforce the regulations, so it would be then when I'd back efforts for change.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Regulations

As a matter of interest, I have nothing against the Metro and believe that it is far safer at 20mph than a moped is at 30, however as we all know, if there is a bad accident which involves publicity the anti electric bike guys will be on us like a ton of bricks.

Before anyone says there can't be anyone who would oppose electric bikes, there is a very powerful motorbike lobby against them, hence all the messing about with throttles and pedals etc. Unfortunately there is huge vested interest in keeping IC engined bikes on the road burning fuel, these guys would love the chance to find somthing concrete against E Bikes.

Bikes that travel faster than 17/18mph (the EN regs leave us a 10% deviation either side of 15.5mph) or that have a throttle that works above 3mph without the pedals turning do not conform and really should not be sold without type approval, insurance, tax, MOT etc. As you all know I am not against pushing the boundaries a little however the Metro does look and feel much more like moped than a bicycle. I am horribly afraid it will cause us all problems unless the Ultra Motor guys restrict the Metro to perform to the letter of the law of course if they did that who would buy one?

Tricky!

All the best David

 

[PowaRider]

Hi all,

I'm sure the full ETRA proposal has been published on the forum somewhere (I haven't looked). It would seem to match most of your views - i.e. max powered speed unchanged at 25kmh but increasing the max rating of the motor to 500 watts - as a definition of the regs under which an electric bike will be classified as a pedal cycle without the need for type approval.

Furthermore ETRA proposes the introduction of a new category (as a subdivision of the current moped category) for pedal cycles which will require type approval - with max rated motor power of 1kw and a max powered speed of 45kmh. Currently in the UK these would carry the same licensing, insurance, tax etc rules as for Cat L mopeds – this category is primarily to add clarity to current rules and encourage product development in an area the technology is ready to support.

Of course these proposals are taking a wide view (Europe, US and Canada) so are very likely to be subject to local amendment.

Certainly a step in the right direction and industry driven (Europe really leading the way due to the size of the market already).

 

[flecc]

Yes, David published the ETRA proposals in full on earlier threads Steve:

ETRA 1

ETRA 2
.

 

[PowaRider]

Thanks flecc, I was sure they'd be here somewhere.
All the best.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Etra

Hi Steve I posted them a few weeks ago, I will dig them up for you.

Have you seen this man!



All the best

David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Quick

Yes, David published the ETRA proposals in full on earlier threads Steve:

ETRA 1

ETRA 2
.

Too quick for me Flecc!

Thanks.

All the best

David

 

[PowaRider]

Never seen him before in my life!

Is it The Hood?!

 

[Wisper Bikes]

????

Or even The Stigg!

All the best

David

 

[Alex728]

Welcome to the Forum!

Your knowledge of electric bikes will be invaluable!

I agree the Metro is a great machine lots of fun, but should we be promoting bikes that patently do not conform to the European standards? My worry is when one of these 40kg bikes hits a child at over 20mph, and it will happen, the whole electric bike industry will suffer.

I have to dig out the report somewhere but this is exactly why Singapore's Land Transport Authority clamped down on e-bikes a few years back and reduced the max power to 200W.

Singapore's close links with China meant a lot of 48V 1000W Chinese e-bikes ended up being imported and ridden on the shared use paths of that crowded and dense country - a few nasty collisions occured, people were injured and a clampdown was the result. For good measure, the LTA also permanently banned on environmental grounds all those petrol powered bike/moped hybrids that Flecc often refers to, which were apparently still popular with old Chinese men. All these had to be taken off the road and weighed in (the bikes, not the old Chinese men!)

It also pushed the hand of neighbouring Malaysia to implement stringent rules to the point my uncle said he thought e-bikes were illegal there - although I think they are now licensed with type approval providing they comply with power rules.

But it certainly did cost all the e-bike businesses thousands and hold back the industry for a few years (and of course the numbers of Japanese mopeds there have not dwindled much..)

 

[Wisper Bikes]

200w

Thanks Alex, for putting the argument so succinctly.

This is exactly my concern, if we don't work within the law we could quickly find ourselves in much the same position.

Best regards

David

 

[Vikki]

Have you seen this man!

View attachment 986

All the best

David

Kinda looks like Heston Blumenthal, the chef.

 

[Fat Elvis]

I saw my first A2B Metro in Canterbury this morning, definitely one for wannabe motorcyclists . Being a wannabe cyclist myself I prefer my Powabyke X6

I have has my A2B for a few weeks now and I am far from a wannabe motorcyclist but a real motorcyclist. I think this is why i dont like the front hub powerd bikes as well. The A2B suits my jouney , I spent the last year on a WISPER 905se which I loved but allthough the range is much further on that the power of the A2B allows me to keep with the traffic on a couple of big junctions/ roundabouts.