Marathon Plus Tyres for Torq

[coops]

From a short search I haven't been able to glean much solid info on how either K-shield (UK site says k-shield similar to iron cloak?) or conti city contact puncture protect, but although I also like the look of the conti I'm a little put off by the reference to "filaments" of kevlar etc. to puncture protect, since this does not suggest any solid barrier against sharp points? (Though on their city/trekking/ATB bikes PDF they say "a strong and tight nylon fabric, additionally reinforced with kevlar for a tire construction that is highly resistant against pinches and cuts" - which reassured me until the last part!)

Kenda seem to be "budget" tyres admittedly, though I read in another forum that Kenda Kwest tyres, also k shield, were "bomb-proof" & though some here have changed the Kenda for others, I haven't heard any complaints about punctures with them - indeed Flecc has said they've faired very well so far (touch wood!).

I'd be more assured against punctures by a solid barrier of some kind, as I said, and preferably bead-to-bead not just on the "tread" part, so the schwalbe systems while quite solid all seem incomplete to me.

The Specialized Armadillo tyres look quite good (nimbus, all condition) & well protected, but again thats nylon (which is actually very light & strong it seems?) and may be down to the reassuring sales pitch! Also very scant information on tyre sizes and wiggle etc. seem to not have large sizes at all: there may well be less chance of a puncture with narrower tyres, but I for one wouldn't want to go narrower on the Torq on these roads without some form of suspension!

So I'm still undecided...! Out of interest Ian, and purely for information, what suggests to you that the conti may protect more than the Kenda? Did you find more info on this than me?!

P.S. Some useful user reviews of many tyres & many makes at mtb review if you've not come across this. Conti top contact is the new version of the "top touring 2000" listed here I believe, but with new anti-puncture system. Kenda fare well too - the Kenda Kwest is slicker but uses k shield as does the Torq standard.

Stuart.

 

[flecc]

Just confirming what Stuart referred to, the Kenda tyres, nearly nine months on the Torq and nearly seven months on the Quando still haven't punctured, my longest ever without punctures and without using Marathon Plus by a big margin. Previously I suffered bike punctures at least once a month and sometimes very much more often and have continued to have trailer tyre punctures, so the sharp stuff is still out there.

Bombproof is a fair description of these puncture resistant Kendas for me.
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[coops]

That's encouraging to know... so long as we don't get flats! (touch wood again!) and is a big factor in why I'm in no real hurry to change tyres yet.

A word of caution on the contis Ian - I don't know if its still an issue but many reviews of the top touring 2000 on the mtbr site claim they are great tyres but have (or had?) a weakness in the sidewalls, which I don't think would be good news with a torq front wheel, especially if you intended to go with wider tyres for comfort which would put more strain on the sidewalls?

I'm quite drawn to the specialized armadillo system tyres for puncture protection, but cannot find any info on sizes available at all! I'd like something similar to the stock kenda tyres sizewise, not much narrower unless can be run at lower pressures.

If anyone knows more on these, can they let me know please? Thanks .

Stuart.

 

[Ian]

Out of interest Ian, and purely for information, what suggests to you that the conti may protect more than the Kenda? Did you find more info on this than me?!

I have no more information than you Stuart, in fact you seem to be very thorough in your research. I'm looking to replace the Kendas because they're now getting quite cut up around the tread centre, and my puncture rate has been comparable to a friend who rides a pure racing bike with tyres which are a quarter of the weight of mine with no puncture barrier at all, although that might be more to do with differences in where we ride. There seems to be a lot more broken glass littering the cycle paths these days, plus the fact that the council have recently put a top dressing of razor sharp granite chippings on some of my most used paths.

My reasons for thinking the Contis may be better are mainly the claims that continental make for their so called safety system, plus the fact that the longest lasting and best gripping car tyres I ever had were Contis. Also I think the contis look good, at least as far as something that basic can look good.
Another plus point is that they come with a free tube, and as I'm going have to buy tubes at some time it effectively reduces the cost by £3-£4 per tyre.

It is possible to buy a protective belt to fit inside the tyre, the ones I've seen were a fairly thick clear greenish plastic, but at about a tenner each seemed a bit expensive.

Ian.

 

[coops]

Cheers Ian,

I do try to be thorough, it doesn't always help in making the right choice though cos there's always some things you overlook & only learn through experience eh?

Fair enough if you need to replace the kendas due to wear - if your 1000 miles was on those thats a fair amount but not excessive by any means I guess? and I agree cyclepaths probably will increase wear & tear, ours are in a similar state!

I suppose with our likely extra mileage & use on ebikes, tyre wear is as important as puncture protection?

I think we posted at the same time so I'll await your reply on the conti sidewall issue if you have any

P.S. just come across this rather unorthodox but very long term & glowing review of specialized armadillo puncture protection...

 

[Ian]

Thanks for the advice on the Conti sidewalls Stuart, I'll have to look into that as I was intending to stick with fairly wide tyres, probably 42mm as oposed to the Kendas 45mm. I'm not desperate to replace the tyres, they're not worn as such, just a bit cut up from sharp objects, probably glass, there's plenty worse out there but the Torq is my pampered and somewhat spoilt baby.

Ian.

 

[coops]

I'm not fully confident that the conti still has that sidewall issue that some have claimed, or that it would necessarily be a big deal on the Torq (the tread may wear thin before any sidewall weakness could manifest!) - just my own common sense - so if anyone has more experience or different info please say.

If you look at enough tyre reviews, probably all have some kind of sidewall weakness! Some say the specialized did have too! 700C x 38 is the widest I've found for those, so I may look elsewhere... some say they are heavy too, which I can't verify as no weights/sizes info is available...

Full circle, just found a mini-review claiming Kenda iron-cap punc protect as good as armadillo but lighter! Some claim many 1000's of miles on Kendas & they are quite cheap so may still be an option, so long as a wide size is available.

I think you can't be too careful when it comes to tyre choice, its so important in many ways.

 

[flecc]

Things aren't always what they seem!

I've just weighed a new Marathon Plus tyre against a very slightly worn Kenda used on the Quando, both 20" size.

Marathon Plus = 735 grams

Kenda = 770 grams

Bet that shook you, so much for the Marathon Plus being heavy! In fact they are nearly 5% lighter than the Kendas despite that guard layer. Looking at the Kendas on my Torq and the Marathon Plus on my Twist, and judging from the construction, I'd say there's a roughly common difference across the sizes, but because the Kendas on the Torq are a bit smaller section than the Quando ones, some of the difference may disappear. So in future, it could be "fit Marathon Plus to save weight". It doesn't seem to add any.

The Marathon was also 1.4% smaller in diameter, so will be slower by that tiny amount in a bike, also almost certain to be the same across the sizes, and also implying a fractionally better hill climb performance for rider and/or motor.

These facts could modify some peoples choice.
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[flecc]

And there's more to my above posting on Marathon Plus weight. The Kenda tubes are 210 gms, the Schwalbe low leakage tubes 154 gms.

However, using the Marathon Plus tyres with their thick under tread layer makes it possible to save more by using Schwalbe's next size down tube, 1.35 to 1.5.

Using those and a pair of Marathon Plus on the 20" wheel Quando saves a total of 270 grams, so I would expect even more saving on the Torq's 28" wheel size, despite the closer widths of the two tyres on that bike.
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[nigel]

Nigel

It just goes to show flecc what you said in the first place was right buy marathons plus they seem to be the best all round tyre.NIGEL

 

[Ian]

The results of Fleccs weigh-in are interesting, I had no idea the Kendas were so heavy, I still like the sound of the Continentals though, a full kg lighter for the pair, even more in narrower widths. If Nigel fits a pair of light tyres, fits an alloy seat tube, loses the lights, accesories, rack and prop stand he's got his 20 kilo e-bike!

Seriously though, 1 kg might not sound a lot, but adding 1kg in the form of a chain lock is certainly noticable when manhandling the bike over the obstructions to keep motorcycles off our cycle paths, so I'm ecstatic at the thought of losing a kilo.

Even so I'll proceed with caution, might just try one for a while.

 

[nigel]

Nigel

Hi ian
i already done that got rid of all the extras still to bloody heavy the torq is ok to ride when the road is flat but even a slight slope and you really feel the weight and have to use power maybe its nit picking but the giant twist was a perfect ride at 20 kilos quite often i didnt need to use power.NIGEL

 

[Ian]

I've never had the the pleasure of riding a giant twist Nigel, and everything else I've ridden is heavier than the Torq, I still take every oportunity to shed weight though.

Ian.

 

[Ian]

Thanks for that helpful advice 50 cycles, I have absolutly no issues with the range or weight of the Torq and am highly suspicious of the weight/range claims made some other manufacturers and retailers. Of course as I mentioned earlier I will take every opportunity to shed weight, but this is the holy grail of all cycling enthusiasts.

Your point about using the battery voltage indicator to monitor current is a very good one and something I have been doing since day one, further to that, I find the recovery time back to green after a climb a helpful indicator of the state of charge. I do put in a fair amount of work on the pedals as that helps keep my personal weight down and enables me to get well over 30 miles between charges.

Thanks 50cycles for supplying a product which continues to exceed all reasonable expectations.

Ian.

 

[coops]

What tyre & tube combo is the best trade-off between weight & puncture protection?

Given that it looks like any of the mentioned tyres including the marathon plus are, lets say, either a similar weight to the Kendas or lower by up to about 30% or so (e.g. conti top contact, schwalbe marathon supreme) - every little helps! - for about the same width as the Kenda, and that different types & levels of flat protection are used in these tyres (vectran, kevlar guard, smartguard etc.) does anyone have a tyre & tube combo recommendation for the best "trade-off" between weight & protection? (while keeping the tyre width size as it is?)

I suppose on the face of it there's not much difference weightwise between say a 47-622 marathon 840g & the plus at 1070g, and even less if you use a smaller/lighter tube as Flecc said, but how much protection would a normal marathon give compared to a plus or a supreme on, say, city streets, where I often see glass, debris etc strewn about?

Nearest size supreme is the wider 50-622 at only 690g, conti top contact 47-622 is 690g wired or 740g fold-up, so those are around two-thirds weight of the m-plus - a bigger difference on the face of it - but may need thicker/heavier tubes?? And again, what's the difference in protection to the m-plus?

Really, how much protection (& weight) is needed (to assure virtual puncture proofness? (why do I feel like I've answered my own question here?! )

 

[Ian]

Really, how much protection is needed (to assurevirtual puncture proofness? (why do I feel like I've answered my own question here?! )

That of course is the real question, but to answer it I'd need to know the circumstances of my next puncture! Perhaps the best way to decide is to throw a dice

I've been out the bike all day today, and enjoyed it far too much to think about punctures, the Torq is certainly a great way to enjoy the countryside.

Ian.

 

[coops]

That of course is the real question, but to answer it I'd need to know the circumstances of my next puncture! Perhaps the best way to decide is to throw a dice

I tend to agree! Its a bit of a lottery after all! next job: to find m-pluses in stock in 47-622 size...!

I've been out the bike all day today, and enjoyed it far too much to think about punctures, the Torq is certainly a great way to enjoy the countryside.

Yes, absolutely agree... till a puncture comes along to flatten the mood still, I get your drift & I'm glad you're enjoying the experience

Stuart.

 

[flecc]

next job: to find m-pluses in stock in 47-622 size...!

Stuart.

Stuart, Wiggle have 9 in stock of the size you want for £21.99 each, a good cut price.

It's worth a check with St Johns Cycles too, their mailing charges are very low and they advertise them at only £19.99 each, not sure if they have the 38 width though, so a phone call in order. 38 is the widest available on Marathon Plus, that's what Russ uses.
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[coops]

Thanks for looking those out for me Flecc: I feel so lazy today

Do you think a (apparently non-existent, though listed in Schwalbe's 2007 catalogue) 622-47 would give a smoother ride (at a little lower pressure) than a 38 on the Torq? That's my only reason for preferring a 47 if I can find it. Also, would you need/prefer to change the stock Torq/Kenda inner tubes too for possibly lighter/smaller size ones, or not bother? (haven't seen it but do m-plus come with inner tube aswell?)

 

[flecc]

For some reason everything Schwalbe say is available just isn't in the UK Stuart. For example, they list a 20 x 1.35 Marathon Plus as well as the 1.75, but the former is impossible to get it seems, suppliers haven't even heard of it.

I changed the tubes from the Kendas as Schwalbe boast of very low leakage, so anything that reduces the frequency of pumping is welcome. The idea of taking advantage of the thick inner layer to use a smaller tube was an afterthought. On the 20" I used the 1 3/8" instead of the 1.75", and the nearest for the 700 size seems to be the ones listed here as 700 x 28-45B instead of the 700 x 45, but thats a guess on my part. My choice on the 20" looked too small, but they are much more stretchy than most tubes and accommodated with no problem.
On that 47 size, you might try ringing St Johns Cycles, they are very helpful.
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