Well, done. I was pretty sure it would work. Thanks for the update. This gives a way to legalise all the Amazon bikes with independent throttles for £0.12 and twenty minutes work.
Making a torque throttle instead of a speed throttle for a cheap controller
- Thread starter AviatorTrainman
- Start date
For on the spot check purposes i have set the throttle to 5mph which in reality is useless as a means of ones, well me anyway, initial take off mode as it takes me a while to get my balance and both feet on the pedals.
Whoever came up with the 4mph rule has no idea of the needs of the elderly and those not so fit wishing to to back in cycling, bear in mind that e-bikes are supposed to be an aid to get those very people back into cycling.
Whoever came up with the 4mph rule has no idea of the needs of the elderly and those not so fit wishing to to back in cycling, bear in mind that e-bikes are supposed to be an aid to get those very people back into cycling.
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The 4mph thing is designed to be an aid when you have to push the bike, that's why it is called walk assist. It usually only has a low power output and is not meant to allow you to start without pedalling.
On my Engwe the walk assist is applied by holding the minus button. The 4ph via the throttle is to aid initial take off.
On my Yosepower kit holding the minus button also delivers 4mph but the throttle allows 15mph which puts it in breach of the EPAC requirements, hence me setting the achievable speed to 5mph when using the throttle.
On my Yosepower kit holding the minus button also delivers 4mph but the throttle allows 15mph which puts it in breach of the EPAC requirements, hence me setting the achievable speed to 5mph when using the throttle.
That's actually not correct. Who said it's called walk assist? It was included in EN15194, where it's called "startup assisistance mode", so that people, who had difficulty starting up, could get a bit of assistance. Obviously, it can also be used as a walk assist button, so the clever person who thought of that rule mentioned both. What you guys are saying is a blinkered view based on nothing but your own paradigms.
Here it is from Google AI:
"The 6 km/h (3.7 mph) speed limit for electric bikes without pedaling, allowed by EN 15194, is designed to assist riders who have difficulty starting or who might benefit from a small amount of power assistance at low speeds, such as when dealing with a disability or injury. This "twist and go" feature is intended for start-up assistance only and must cut off if the rider is rolling faster than 6 km/h without pedaling".
From EN 15194:
"4.2.12 Start-up assistance mode
4.2.12.1 Requirements
An EPAC can be equipped with a start-up assistance mode that operates up to a maximum speed of 6 km/h. This mode shall be activated by the voluntary and maintained action of the user either when riding without pedalling or when the user is pushing the cycle. "
Sorry, but it is correct.
In the instructions for my Yosepower conversion kit and my Engwe LS20e both have a walk assist mode for when pushing the bike which states this is not to be operated when riding, as it is low power output.
The throttle on the Yosepower kit operates up to 15.5 mph where as the LS20e throttle operates up to the legal 3.7mph.
Yosepower instructions below:
Engwe instructions further below::
In the instructions for my Yosepower conversion kit and my Engwe LS20e both have a walk assist mode for when pushing the bike which states this is not to be operated when riding, as it is low power output.
The throttle on the Yosepower kit operates up to 15.5 mph where as the LS20e throttle operates up to the legal 3.7mph.
Yosepower instructions below:
Engwe instructions further below::
I think you're misunderstanding the point of discussion. Chris_n said that 6km/hr isn't supposed to be used for start assist, but the law specifically mentions that it is. That's where he's incorrect, along with Peter, Woosh and Neal, who agreed with him.
Anybody can do what they want within the law. If a manufacturer wants to have a walk assist button, that's up to them. The law says you can have 6km start assist and use it for walk assist if you want. That's what Yose have done, according to them, though I suspect that they just included that feature because nearly everybody else has it, then they figured out that their implementation method doesn't provide enough power for inclines with the rider on the bike. If you try it as a walk assist, you'll probably find that it's useless at that too. 6km/hr is too fast for walk assist. It needs to be about 2.5 to 3 mph.
Chris_n said:
Chris_n is correct. You can sit on the bike and press the walk assist button but it is not how it is meant to be used.
That's what I agreed with.
If I need a push to start from standstill, I would use a throttle.
I still do not think that limiting the voltage of the throttle to something like 2V-3V is a good idea. You cannot control the acceleration and speed limit with this method.
You're changing the story. Comments were in relation to what Bobbo did, not any general situation. Read back through the thread.
Bobbo didn't do much. The title of the thread 'Making a torque throttle' is misleading but the gist of what Bobbo tried to do is sufficiently clear. It's about how to meet the 6km/h throttle when the firmware wasn't programmed for it. I would do that by generating a brake signal when the speed reaches 6km/s.
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My method may be somewhat crude but serves the purpose of giving me a throttle that is limited to a legal 4mph limit.
If Woosh knows a better means of achieving my aim then please share, providing I don’t have to do any electrical calculations. Splicing and soldering I'm ok with though.
If Woosh knows a better means of achieving my aim then please share, providing I don’t have to do any electrical calculations. Splicing and soldering I'm ok with though.
Using google to look up arduino is the only skill needed to learn..
The #1 Super thing about the arduino framework is that EVERYTHING you can plug into the arduino has its own working example program (in arduino-speak a program is a 'sketch') - And these example programs/sketches are laid out with comments/instructions to teach you about how to use them..
So programming becomes a task of finding all the example sketches for the h/w needed for your project, and using the cut and paste editing features to build your program from the building blocks of the examples..
Yes there is more too it - its called programming, but with a lot of the hassle and hard work already done for you leaving you to to stitch the relevant copied blocks together with common variables etc.. So an evening reading the first few chapters of any C primer will get you going.
Start with just a bare £2 arduino uno clone and the blink sketch and if that makes sense to you - the sky is the limit..
If it rings your bells there's a lot more toys out there to play with too.. esp8266/32 devices, tasmota and node red are some of my favourites..
An arduino would have been way over the top for what he wanted. He solved his problem with a £0.12 preset and two wires. Why would you want to make it more complicated than that?
My encouragement to have an arduino go isnt so much to resolve the above solved problem but to expand the options for solutions to new issues that may crop up possibly unrelated to ebikes entirely.
And it can be fun, although the whole arduino framework was conceived to educate kids it is supported by an equally friendly/helpful online community that cares nothing for age.
Acceleration. You need it for hill start. If you limit the throttle to say 2.3V, the Acceleration would be weaker than throttle without limit.
The arduino is cheap and you can get chatGPT to write the code. Plus, you can add a switch to change the way the code works.
The acceleration is not weeker because the throttle is a speed control device, not power control. OP has used the potentiometer to solve his problem. He's happy with the results. QED.
Also, the potentiometer allows continuous power. Your solution would cut it every time 4mph was reached, then there would be a reset time, mainly from the controller. On a hill, that would be terrible. Get your guy to make both versions, then race them against each other up Pier Hill to see which one wins. I'll come and adjudicate. Whoever loses buys the lunch.
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If the OP is happy then it's good result, no need for a bet. In my experience, the throttle starts quite gently, until you whack it up. You control that way the acceleration.