Lyen & other programable controllers

[jerrysimon]

I am sure others have used these programmable controllers before and I know there have been previous posts about them, but this is a first time for me even though I have been messing around with ebikes since 2009.

I guess I have always been a little cheap and had assumed that all controllers were similar/the same and usually just purchased a stock controller with whatever motor I was getting. Most of these stock controller are about 1/3 the cost of the likes of these programmable Lyen controllers.

Well as they say you are never too old to learn something new

My Lyen Controller turned up yesterday. I am now beginning to realise the benefit of these more expensive controllers. Ed Lyen is a very helpfull chap responding promptly and courteously to the many emails I have sent him

The challenge I was having was with one of the new Tongxin Goldant motors in that their controller was setup for pedelec only. This meant that that I needed both an ebrake and a cutoff switch to tame it properly. Not sure if it is the same with all pedelec systems, but this one seems to always ramp up to full speed when you are pedaling and give over run when you stop. Also if you stop pedaling for a short time then the motor cut out when I often just need a little throttle to keep momentum going.

Anyway the controller I have received has all the bells and whistles for me to play with ebrakes, PAS, Throttle, Cruise Control, Three Speed setting switch on BOTH PAS and Throttle and of course all the leads and module to program it. I am looking forward to mixing and matching these to experiment.

That said my main requirement was a replacement for the Goldant controller that had a smooth throttle response. This controller met that requirement exactly.

The initial challenge I had was that the power connector has "two" +ve connectors that both have to be connected. At first I thought it was faulty as there was no power in the throttle circuit when I connected up power to the main two power leads. The second one apparently switches on the controller. I read that this only has to be initially made and had assumed that once done it could be disconnected and still work. Seems that it has to be connected permanently.

So why have a a second +ve connection ?

This is the connector that has a second smaller +ve lead on the top pin ?

I am also struggling with installing the programmable software on my Win7 64bit machine.

Regards

Jerry

 

[jerrysimon]

Just thinking can this be used as a switch ?

I really am showing my lack of electronics knowledge here

Regards

Jerry

 

[amigafan2003]

Ahh, my kind of topic

I put a switch on the small red wire. It's very useful having it on a switch as it lets you disable the system when you are moving the bike around. You don't want the bike to take off if you accidently catch the throttle (trust me!).

As far as software goes - try XPD. It offer more options and granularity than the standard keywin software.

Small tip - set 0.1s block time - this stops the controller giving the motor a load of amps at startup - it basically limits it to whatever you have set your phase amps at.

Another tip - the phase amps/battery amps are not very accurate - setting 10a on the controller might actually result in 13a so use a wattmeter/cycle analyst/speedict to double check

I'm happy to post my settings up of the same controller/motor combo if you want (bearing in mind my voltage is differen) .

Last tip - don't leave the controller connected to the battery as the caps leaking watts will very slowly drain a battery pack.

 

[jerrysimon]

Thanks amigafan. If you have the switch in the circuit on the second +ve connector can you then leave the battery connected to the controller ?

Your settings would be useful to see even though I have no intention of running it at more than 36v.

I will try the other software.

Regards

Jerry

 

[amigafan2003]

Thanks amigafan. If you have the switch in the circuit on the second +ve connector can you then leave the battery connected to the controller ?

Not unless you have some other way of isolating the battery main positive lead from the controller. The thin red wire simply activates the controller - it still has power with it not connected but it simply wont respond to commands.

Your settings would be useful to see even though I have no intention of running it at more than 36v.

No probs - I'll pull the settings off sometime this weekend (out for an anniversary meal tonight - I don't think the missus will appreciate me playing with ebikes tonight ).

 

[benjy_a]

I just use the "ignition" wire with a switch to activate the controller. Main power stays connected all day when I'm at work. I'm not disputing that there may be some very slight power drain but not that I have ever noticed or that causes any issue. Battery gets disconnected to charge in the evening anyway.


Also I have only ever got the Lyen software to work with my Lyen controller... I tried with some others but just got errors and got scared I may end up bricking the controller.

I'm using windows 7 64 bit. I'm happy with the parameters available in the Lyen program which is in fact different to the Keywin version.

 

[jerrysimon]

So Benjy how did you install the Lyen software under Windows 7 64 bit ?

I have now tried, and got XPD to install and work fairly easily.

Regards

Jerry

 

[amigafan2003]

Jerry - not sure if you're aware but there is no way of reading the settings currently in the controller. What you do in the software is select the preset that macthes your controller (6fet sensorless in your instance) and change the settings to whatever you want, re-save it with your own filename then upload the settings to your controller.

So don't think when you open the preset that's what's already on you controller (it will be set to 25amps or something)!

 

[jerrysimon]

Thanks amigafan. Having installed and ran XPD to take a look that did occur to me so thanks for confirming.

Ed preset it to 36v and 12 amps for me so at this stage I will leave well alone checking it with my new Speedict that also arrived yesterday

Regards

Jerry

 

[benjy_a]

So Benjy how did you install the Lyen software under Windows 7 64 bit ?

I have now tried, and got XPD to install and work fairly easily.

Regards

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

I just followed the instructions supplied, from memory I think I had to install as administrator...works for me.

For the life of me I can't get XPD to work at all I got lots of port errors, then when I resolved that it was half uploading and crashing so I got scared and gave up

Ed Lyen emailed me the settings he had preset to my controller in a file which I could just open in his software. These files cannot be opened in XPD.

 

[jerrysimon]

I sorted out the connectors properly so I could try it on my Brompton M2L-X with the Goldant motor.

Whilst the throttle works nice and smoothly/linearly I did find that the clutch kept slipping unless I was very careful with the throttle control. Hopefully when amigaman is free he can post his settings and I can try them on my controller.

I attached a Turnigy meter and the max current draw recorded was 16.5 amps which matches up with my Tongxin Nanos. Perhaps I should reduce this a little ?

I also now have a speedict which you can use to intercept the throttle and change/set the end points.

Regards

Jerry

 

[amigafan2003]

That's a little high Jerry - assuming you have a 36v pack that's around 42v hott of the charger - that 676watts peak (16.5*41v) - a bit high for a Tongxin unless you are super gentle on the throttle. If you can get the amps down to 12amps that'll be around 500 watts peak and should be "slip free".

I'll get those settings for you later

 

[jerrysimon]

Thanks amigafan. So the higher peak power causes the clutch to slip ?

That makes sense in terms of the fully charged battery I was using kicking 3.6 * 12 = 43.2v so just over
700W !

I guess as you say I need to lower the max current setting.

Regards

Jerry

 

[amigafan2003]

Try this Gerry:-

Select the 6fet sensorless default preset, click edit, puut your values in, save it as a different file and then select you comm port, connect the cable to the laptop and controller, click upload and then click the button on the cable. Program should show something like "settings successfully uploaded" and then go and test

As I said earlier - what you set in the controller might not be what you actually get so feel free to have a play with the amps. i found a ratio of 1:1.5 battery amps versus phase amps gave me the best balance of speed and acceleration (generally speaking battery amps limits top speed amps and phase amps equals acceleration - so with a Tongxin you want to limit acceleration without harming top speed pulling power).

 

[jerrysimon]

Many many thanks Amigafan. I was thinking of setting current lower at about 10 amps but looking at your setting its even lower so will try that as I really don't like it when the clutch slips and makes that awful noise

Jerry

 

[jerrysimon]

Ok done. Now I just need to plug in the controller and upload the new settings

That software installs much easier.

Regards

Jerry

 

[amigafan2003]

I find my controller is about 3 amps off - so 7 amps on the software equals about 10 amps actual. Your's could vary of course. But that's the beauty of a programmable controller - it's quick and easy to change and test - you're not stuck with whatever it got set to out of the factory.

 

[jerrysimon]

Well as hard as I try I can't seem to get it to upload the settings. Mostly it just sits there waiting for me to push the button even after I do it dos nothing holding it for 10 seconds.

It did work twice but produced an error "invalid reply byte fe" so now I am stuck with a controller in goodness knows what state... sigh...

I need to email Ed

Ok seems pressing the button twice makes it work and it attempts to do the upload but I still get the same error ?

Jerry

 

[cwah]

Try this Gerry:-

Select the 6fet sensorless default preset, click edit, puut your values in, save it as a different file and then select you comm port, connect the cable to the laptop and controller, click upload and then click the button on the cable. Program should show something like "settings successfully uploaded" and then go and test

As I said earlier - what you set in the controller might not be what you actually get so feel free to have a play with the amps. i found a ratio of 1:1.5 battery amps versus phase amps gave me the best balance of speed and acceleration (generally speaking battery amps limits top speed amps and phase amps equals acceleration - so with a Tongxin you want to limit acceleration without harming top speed pulling power).

How come your screen layout is like this?

I have a view like this:

 

[jerrysimon]

One is Lyen's software cwah and one is an open source version.

Jerry