Looks familiar
- Thread starter projone
- Start date
Yes, looks like the Wisper 905e again, also known as the Knight Rider in this country, so available as two models from various sources already.
Lot's of complaints about the ancillary bits being poor quality.
Prices have been from around £750 via ebay to about £870 from dealers and Wisperbike.
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Lot's of complaints about the ancillary bits being poor quality.
Prices have been from around £750 via ebay to about £870 from dealers and Wisperbike.
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To be honest i have received details from 3 companies in China on the same bike and at a good price. One in particular come with very good bike parts and some good add ons at not much cost.
Makes you think that this bike could be sold for about £700 and would be as good as the Wisper and maybe improved on to make it a good sellable bike in the UK
Makes you think that this bike could be sold for about £700 and would be as good as the Wisper and maybe improved on to make it a good sellable bike in the UK
The bike looks identical in every way to my Wisper 905e bike. I've always thought that this bike was not specifically made for Wisper (as they claim)... more like an exercise in branding.... Knight Rider, Wisper, Whatever. Basically a Chinese made bike, sold to anyone who will import X numbers of containers of them, branded to order and of dubious quality in terms of cycle parts, wiring etc etc. Somehow, I suspect that the Wisper 905se is a similar thing.... maybe an update Knight Rider bike will be offered soon?
If you believe they can be sold at £700, then the current UK price of getting on for £900 is about as unreasonable as the £1200 for the 905se, in my opinion.
If you believe they can be sold at £700, then the current UK price of getting on for £900 is about as unreasonable as the £1200 for the 905se, in my opinion.
I have been speaking to 2 factories that make this bike and as mentioned earlier the bike does come with some good parts but will see when i take delivery next month.
They will make any improvements and hopefully the new bike with its new life po4 battery will live up to it expectations.
They will make any improvements and hopefully the new bike with its new life po4 battery will live up to it expectations.
When Wisper themselves sold through ebay until recently, the 905e was about £750.
That indicates your £700 is reasonable, but whether you could market an adequately improved one still at that price is questionable. Even if you can, will a potential customer be able to see that your's is better than apparently the same thing elsewhere. Most e-bike customers are very ill informed, only a small proportion finding their way into this site.
There's also the problem of getting the improvements from the Chinese source, Wisper themselves have had a struggle to get that, and eZee's principals have spoken of the constant struggle to maintain quality and the regular trips back to China to achieve that consistently.
Sorry to sound so doubting, but better that than you end up with a business model that doesn't work.
P.S. Just seen your last post. If the battery is ok, LiFePO4 is a good selling point, but it will be essential for you to test it under trying conditions such as continuous full power hill climbing for long periods. This has been the failing of lithium batteries on mid to high power bikes, the inability to deliver without cutting out.
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That indicates your £700 is reasonable, but whether you could market an adequately improved one still at that price is questionable. Even if you can, will a potential customer be able to see that your's is better than apparently the same thing elsewhere. Most e-bike customers are very ill informed, only a small proportion finding their way into this site.
There's also the problem of getting the improvements from the Chinese source, Wisper themselves have had a struggle to get that, and eZee's principals have spoken of the constant struggle to maintain quality and the regular trips back to China to achieve that consistently.
Sorry to sound so doubting, but better that than you end up with a business model that doesn't work.
P.S. Just seen your last post. If the battery is ok, LiFePO4 is a good selling point, but it will be essential for you to test it under trying conditions such as continuous full power hill climbing for long periods. This has been the failing of lithium batteries on mid to high power bikes, the inability to deliver without cutting out.
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I have ordered numerous bikes been shipped over from China and to be honest the Wisper is not my main point of interest as working on new design bikes with new motors and life po4 battery.
I will be testing the bikes and upgrading parts to fit UK market and also visiting China in March to meet bike manufacturers and hopefully end up with a well made bike.
I will be testing the bikes and upgrading parts to fit UK market and also visiting China in March to meet bike manufacturers and hopefully end up with a well made bike.
The main problem with Chinese manufacturing is the fact that they have their own peculiar ways of doing things and will drift off message if left to their own devices for a while, so they say. Mattel learned this with about 6 million toys made in China that contained, contrary to explicit instructions, lead-based paint for a host of western babies to chew and suck on. It cost them an absolute fortune to recall them all and resulted in a huge loss of consumer confidence.
Behringer are German designers of pro audio equipment which is made in China but, as they stress on their publicity, it's made under German management in China, presumably to make sure that things are done as they should be. On-site Germans permanently.
I can't help thinking that, with the best will in the world, it will be an uphill struggle to achieve consistent standards of production of a new bike in China. Many of the components are, I understand, made by many manufacturers, so tracing faulty components is difficult. The same bits pop up on all sorts of electric bikes, I've noticed. A bad batch of, say, controllers, could mean an importer having 200 bikes to fix...... probably enough to knock you out of the game, I'd have thought.
Do you not think that there would be more mileage in producing an electric bike here in the UK? Yep, labour would cost more (although that depends on who you get to work for you) and some of the components would probably come from China but at least you'd have more control over what you produce.
Behringer are German designers of pro audio equipment which is made in China but, as they stress on their publicity, it's made under German management in China, presumably to make sure that things are done as they should be. On-site Germans permanently.
I can't help thinking that, with the best will in the world, it will be an uphill struggle to achieve consistent standards of production of a new bike in China. Many of the components are, I understand, made by many manufacturers, so tracing faulty components is difficult. The same bits pop up on all sorts of electric bikes, I've noticed. A bad batch of, say, controllers, could mean an importer having 200 bikes to fix...... probably enough to knock you out of the game, I'd have thought.
Do you not think that there would be more mileage in producing an electric bike here in the UK? Yep, labour would cost more (although that depends on who you get to work for you) and some of the components would probably come from China but at least you'd have more control over what you produce.
I suppose its all about the cost and where would i find someone in the UK that would have a good knowledge of electric bikes to build my own brand.
I do like the idea of building the bike in the UK thus keeping a good eye on production and not dealing with shipping and other issues that im sure will arise
Maybe worth thinking about
I do like the idea of building the bike in the UK thus keeping a good eye on production and not dealing with shipping and other issues that im sure will arise
Maybe worth thinking about
Wisper in different guises
Hi Jimmy, Doug here from Wisper. The Knight rider is in fact a Wisper supllied by us to Eddie and Jamie at The Electric Transport Shop.
The bike is ours and we designed the frame, We also have our own company in china with a Chinese Manager, Dick Lai, and it is possible that you have requested details from him as we advertise in Made In China. If not I would be grateful if you could give me the contacts so I can nip it in the bud!
Buying a bike from China is not so easy and you must add on to all prices quoted, and pay in full months before you receive the bike
1. The cost of the bike and packaging
2. The duty in China cost plus 9%
3. The carriage to the UK ( approx £3000 per container)
4. The import duty in the UK (not vat) currently 8%
5. VAT of is then charged on ALL of the above !
Add to this the difficulties in dealing with the chinese and the hundreds of man hours needed. you will see that costs here from all manufacturers selling electric bikes are very reasonable indeed.
Hi Jimmy, Doug here from Wisper. The Knight rider is in fact a Wisper supllied by us to Eddie and Jamie at The Electric Transport Shop.
The bike is ours and we designed the frame, We also have our own company in china with a Chinese Manager, Dick Lai, and it is possible that you have requested details from him as we advertise in Made In China. If not I would be grateful if you could give me the contacts so I can nip it in the bud!
Buying a bike from China is not so easy and you must add on to all prices quoted, and pay in full months before you receive the bike
1. The cost of the bike and packaging
2. The duty in China cost plus 9%
3. The carriage to the UK ( approx £3000 per container)
4. The import duty in the UK (not vat) currently 8%
5. VAT of is then charged on ALL of the above !
Add to this the difficulties in dealing with the chinese and the hundreds of man hours needed. you will see that costs here from all manufacturers selling electric bikes are very reasonable indeed.
Wisper in different guises
Hi Jimmy, Doug here from Wisper. The Knight rider is in fact a Wisper supllied by us to Eddie and Jamie at The Electric Transport Shop.
The bike is ours and we designed the frame, We also have our own company in china with a Chinese Manager, Dick Lai, and it is possible that you have requested details from him as we advertise in Made In China. If not I would be grateful if you could give me the contacts so I can nip it in the bud!
Buying a bike from China is not so easy and you must add on to all prices quoted, and pay in full months before you receive the bike
1. The cost of the bike and packaging
2. The duty in China cost plus 9%
3. The carriage to the UK ( approx £3000 per container)
4. The import duty in the UK (not vat) currently 8%
5. VAT of is then charged on ALL of the above !
Add to this the difficulties in dealing with the chinese and the hundreds of man hours needed. you will see that costs here from all manufacturers selling electric bikes are very reasonable indeed.
Hi Jimmy, Doug here from Wisper. The Knight rider is in fact a Wisper supllied by us to Eddie and Jamie at The Electric Transport Shop.
The bike is ours and we designed the frame, We also have our own company in china with a Chinese Manager, Dick Lai, and it is possible that you have requested details from him as we advertise in Made In China. If not I would be grateful if you could give me the contacts so I can nip it in the bud!
Buying a bike from China is not so easy and you must add on to all prices quoted, and pay in full months before you receive the bike
1. The cost of the bike and packaging
2. The duty in China cost plus 9%
3. The carriage to the UK ( approx £3000 per container)
4. The import duty in the UK (not vat) currently 8%
5. VAT of is then charged on ALL of the above !
Add to this the difficulties in dealing with the chinese and the hundreds of man hours needed. you will see that costs here from all manufacturers selling electric bikes are very reasonable indeed.
Projone,
Good luck with your plans as the market needs more ideas.
I suggest that you might consider starting not with the bike, as many do, but with the customer and with the end-to-end experience of choosing, buying and owning a bike. So the questions would be:
What type of bike do people in the UK want (This thread sums it up for me)?
What will they pay for?
Where do they want to buy it from (local shop vs web site)?
What service do they need?
I'm not planning to set up an e-bike business, but if I was, this is what I would do.
Frank
Good luck with your plans as the market needs more ideas.
I suggest that you might consider starting not with the bike, as many do, but with the customer and with the end-to-end experience of choosing, buying and owning a bike. So the questions would be:
What type of bike do people in the UK want (This thread sums it up for me)?
What will they pay for?
Where do they want to buy it from (local shop vs web site)?
What service do they need?
I'm not planning to set up an e-bike business, but if I was, this is what I would do.
- Contact as many bike shops as possible - those who sell electric bikes and those who don't - and ask them what type of bike they think would sell, where the gap in the market is, what price point it would need to be sold at and what support they would need if they sold it.
- Design the bike you want, based on this input and your own intuition
- Go to China (by internet at first!) and find either the people who can make something close to that bike, or supply you with the components/modules you would need. Discuss it, get ideas on how it could work, get an outline agreement.
- Go back to your retailers and offer the package (bike, price and back-up for support) to them.
- Tell them you are setting up a web site that refers customers to your retailers, rather than tries to compete with them
Frank
Bike Design
Heres a couple of bikes I was thinking about shipping over to the UK but unsure on them as you have mentioned not a great deal of difference in shape and really wanted to get away from a bike that looked like my granddad would ride.
Im up for doing some thing new and different so if any one has any good frame ideas and can add something to my ideas then please get in touch
Heres a couple of bikes I was thinking about shipping over to the UK but unsure on them as you have mentioned not a great deal of difference in shape and really wanted to get away from a bike that looked like my granddad would ride.
Im up for doing some thing new and different so if any one has any good frame ideas and can add something to my ideas then please get in touch
Attachments
The silver bike appears to be just a mock-up prototype, apparently no controller or on/off switch, and the cranks haven't been fully fitted, just loosely hung into place and out of line with each other. The battery and motor are familiar units fitted to some other makes. The upper attachments of the rear A frame don't look very strong. Otherwise the style looks ok for our market, the addition of a controller etc., and possible mudguards will fill the ugly gap at the rear of the battery.
It's a subjective matter of taste, but for me the black bike looks downright ugly and rather odd, leaving the silver bike the more promising, subject to it being a finished and properly tested product.
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It's a subjective matter of taste, but for me the black bike looks downright ugly and rather odd, leaving the silver bike the more promising, subject to it being a finished and properly tested product.
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The silver bike is still been worked on so looks a bit bare as still working out best parts to add. The factory are thinking about adding disc brakes to rear or to be different drum brakes but can only see this been a problem if brake pads need changing
The black bike is ugly and was a no go but thought i would post it to see what people think.
The black bike is ugly and was a no go but thought i would post it to see what people think.
Wisper
Just back from my 11th trip to China to make certain that the Launch of the new 905 series is perfect and am pleased to say that after many thousands of hours work and unbelievable investment we are on the home straight. The 905, 905se Sport and City will finally be ready for marketing in Europe and the rest of the world in April, we will get one off to David Henshaw for testing as soon as possible.
It really is not that easy building a bike from scratch anywhere in the world let alone China and as Flecc says, it needs constant supervision, hence employing full time staff in Shanghai. And Doug has just booked tickets for another visit in 4 weeks time to reconfirm final production spec.
Just to put Jimmy's fears to rest (although I am getting a bit tired of saying this) The Wisper range is ours, we designed the frame and own all the tools, we sell it all over the world. We sell it through "made in China" which probably confuses some people. It has been copied already (what's new in China?) but the copy frame is much cheaper and does not go through the hardening,tempering and micro adjustment ours does and certainly does not sport any of the same components or our new wonderful lithium polymer 36v 14amp battery. Our battery costs more than some cheap Li on bikes do!
Regarding price, yes we can all land a Li ion bike for under £250, and there is certainly a market for these bikes, but if anyone feels that they could get a bike made to the 905se spec and market it through retailers in the UK for under £1200 then they would be welcome. You should consider the cost of design, mold design, frame stocks, offices in Shanghai, employees in Shanghai, trips to Shanghai, marketing, retailer mark ups. Amongst all the other frustrations, for instance, if you want to buy Shimano Alivio components (not made in China) prepare yourself for a three to four month delivery tunnel!
Regarding the new LiFe Lithium Ion battery we have looked at them and they do seem to have some merit especially considering recharge cycles (and they are cheaper than Lithium Polymer) however after running tests in December we have chosen to stick with what we have.
I look forward to speaking to you again soon.
Best regards David
Hi Pedelecers all!
Just back from my 11th trip to China to make certain that the Launch of the new 905 series is perfect and am pleased to say that after many thousands of hours work and unbelievable investment we are on the home straight. The 905, 905se Sport and City will finally be ready for marketing in Europe and the rest of the world in April, we will get one off to David Henshaw for testing as soon as possible.
It really is not that easy building a bike from scratch anywhere in the world let alone China and as Flecc says, it needs constant supervision, hence employing full time staff in Shanghai. And Doug has just booked tickets for another visit in 4 weeks time to reconfirm final production spec.
Just to put Jimmy's fears to rest (although I am getting a bit tired of saying this) The Wisper range is ours, we designed the frame and own all the tools, we sell it all over the world. We sell it through "made in China" which probably confuses some people. It has been copied already (what's new in China?) but the copy frame is much cheaper and does not go through the hardening,tempering and micro adjustment ours does and certainly does not sport any of the same components or our new wonderful lithium polymer 36v 14amp battery. Our battery costs more than some cheap Li on bikes do!
Regarding price, yes we can all land a Li ion bike for under £250, and there is certainly a market for these bikes, but if anyone feels that they could get a bike made to the 905se spec and market it through retailers in the UK for under £1200 then they would be welcome. You should consider the cost of design, mold design, frame stocks, offices in Shanghai, employees in Shanghai, trips to Shanghai, marketing, retailer mark ups. Amongst all the other frustrations, for instance, if you want to buy Shimano Alivio components (not made in China) prepare yourself for a three to four month delivery tunnel!
Regarding the new LiFe Lithium Ion battery we have looked at them and they do seem to have some merit especially considering recharge cycles (and they are cheaper than Lithium Polymer) however after running tests in December we have chosen to stick with what we have.
I look forward to speaking to you again soon.
Best regards David
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