Looking to build my own bike to replace Woosh Sirocco CD.

[Ash21014]

I am talking about riding on private farm land and tracks that are not subject to the road traffic act, I could drive a car without a licence if I wanted to.

The problems on my bike have nothing to do with how I have used it, I'm not sure how you think condensation in the battery and computer, and pedal sensor failures have anything to do with how I ride. 90% of the time I am riding on tarmac road at the legal speed limit.

If I had been doing extreme mountain biking and a spoke broke that would be expected and not unreasonable, but for riding on the road and the brakes and battery to suddenly fail is not wear and tear and others have reported the exact same failures with these "Zoom" disk brakes.

The performance of the bike has been fine, but the components are clearly sub par, this is why I'm starting with a high quality light frame, and adding high quality components to it, so I can get a reliable bike that isn't hazardous, and will hopefully perform better, not weighing half a ton.

 

[Artstu]

90% of the time I am riding on tarmac road at the legal speed limit.

That's it, fancy riding at 60 mph, no wonder it's falling apart sorry couldn't resist that one

 

[Ash21014]

Alas, I've only just touched 40mph a couple of times coasting down the hills.

 

[Artstu]

A friend of a friend has a Woosh CD bike, I've had a quick ride, I didn't think much to it, apart from being quite powerful. The front brake was dreadful though. I doubt he's done 50 miles in a year on it though.

 

[trex]

ash wants a better bike that he can ride hard with - what's wrong with that?
usually, you can estimate the demand put on the bike by the average power consumption.
If ash empties 540WH on 20 miles, that averages out about 25WH/m against the average 11-12AH/mile.
Basically, he rides twice as hard as the average so his bike falls apart twice as fast.

I am talking about riding on private farm land and tracks that are not subject to the road traffic act, I could drive a car without a licence if I wanted to.

The problems on my bike have nothing to do with how I have used it, I'm not sure how you think condensation in the battery and computer, and pedal sensor failures have anything to do with how I ride. 90% of the time I am riding on tarmac road at the legal speed limit.

If I had been doing extreme mountain biking and a spoke broke that would be expected and not unreasonable, but for riding on the road and the brakes and battery to suddenly fail is not wear and tear and others have reported the exact same failures with these "Zoom" disk brakes.

The performance of the bike has been fine, but the components are clearly sub par, this is why I'm starting with a high quality light frame, and adding high quality components to it, so I can get a reliable bike that isn't hazardous, and will hopefully perform better, not weighing half a ton.

the cutout on the Sirocco CD usually comes from its 14A controller or the battery BMS when too much power is pumped.
The Big Bear had 17A controller last year and 20A controller now. If you pump too much power, the 14A controller will cut out or the thermistor on the BMS will cut out, you have to recycle the battery power, wait for about 60 seconds for the system to cool off before it lets you ride again. This problem will happen with any bike in the same situation.
The design of the Zoom mechanical disc brakes may have an issue with the swing arm which has a sort of quick release spring load mechanism with a grey twist knob on top that I suspect can be swamped.
Woosh replaced last year 20A BMS with 28A this year, the Zoom disc brakes are also replaced with Tektro Novella.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

the cutout on the Sirocco CD usually comes from its 14A controller or the battery BMS when too much power is pumped.

No, he's talking about the 15mph speed limit cut-out, which is like a switch. I've never heard of a BMS tripping at 14 amps.

 

[trex]

the BMS on his bike trips at 20A, the controller on his bike is Lishui LSW-947 rated 14A max. so would also trip around 18A-20A.

so ash has a problem with his CD because he's such a law abiding person that will always ride on public roads with speed limit on?
well, in this case, building his own bike won't solve this problem because all the LCD speed limiter work like the King Meter.

I honestly can't see why the speed limiter is such a big deal for anyone, that led me to misunderstand his problem. If you don't want to ride above the legal 15mph speed, you wouldn't want to accelerate into the limiter - most would just slow down before hitting 15mph.
If ash does not need assistance on the flat, there is a simple solution: unplug the PAS sensor and use throttle only.

 

[Ash21014]

There are two issues regarding cut out, firstly is the sudden cut out (as opposed to a gradual power reduction) at 15.5mph which makes the bike a very bad ride on the flat (most of the time I am climbing hills and can't reach 15mph or coasting down them), the second is the cut out that is not supposed to happen where the motor just completely stops for no reason for a few seconds or longer when I am under the speed limit. I had the problem before and it went away when they replaced the battery, so although they are telling me to check connections etc, I have a suspicion it's the dodgy Woosh battery failing again.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Cutting out can be caused by lots of things. The most common causes are brake switches and battery connections, but some controllers will shut down if they detect any faulty condition, which can be any intermittent contact problem on any connector. There's been a few people complaining about cut-outs when they rest their fingers on the brake lever, which activates the brake cut-off.

 

[JohnCade]

The design of the Zoom mechanical disc brakes may have an issue with the swing arm which has a sort of quick release spring load mechanism with a grey twist knob on top that I suspect can be swamped.
Woosh replaced last year 20A BMS with 28A this year, the Zoom disc brakes are also replaced with Tektro Novella.

I've got Zoom brakes on my Sport CD delivered a few days ago. Don't think they're the best but they seem to work better than the rim brakes I've always had in the past.

 

[trex]

you aleady know how to deal with the King Meter, all the LCDs cut the motor in the same way, when the speed reaches the limit, the LCD sends a code to the controller to cut power, so there is nothing more anyone can do.
Regarding the battery cut out, if you are not pumping too much power through your CD at the time, then there are only two possibilities: overheating (again too much power going through in the minutes leading to the cutout) or poor connection between the battery and the controller. The contacts between the two are two leaf springs on the battery side.
Take the battery out and check. Each leaf spring is made of two metal leaves, the gap must be closed when you look at it, otherwise it does not have enough strength to maintain contact with the controller when the bike is jolted. Put a little bit of grease between the leaves may help.

 

[Ash21014]

Well I was thinking of not using a king-meter and maybe using another computer on the bike I'm building.

I've been trying to work on solving the problem with the CD and it's definitely not the brakes because I've tried disconnecting the brake controller cables and the problem still persists, I've also checked the basic battery connections. I'm going to have to unscrew the compartment at the back to check everything more thoroughly there.

 

[trex]

all the LCDs work the same way ash. power control is in the programming of the controller which sends only codes in digital format so it either works or not at all. Also, Lishui is about the most respected company for their controllers.

 

[Ash21014]

The signal the controller the sends to the motor is not simply on or off, that's how they are able to have differing assistance levels, it sends a signal telling the motor how much power to output, and as the bike approaches the speed limit this can be reduced in a step down manner. As opposed to 100% output to 0% output.

I have electronics experience and I'm a CS graduate so I am capable of programming a controller if needed.

 

[trex]

...
I have electronics experience and I'm a CS graduate so I am capable of programming a controller if needed.

it's not as easy as it looks. Manufacturers are not going to make their code public.

1. which controller can you reprogram?
2. do you know which MCU your controller uses?
3. how are you going to access the I2C bus?
4. where are you going to find the API for the system?
5. the LCD's internal program also needs modifying - the same questions need to be solved,

 

[Ash21014]

I haven't taken enough look at what's available on the market yet, but I've seen other e-bikes perform much better in this regard, so clearly there are other off the shelf controllers out there that have better algorithms for determining power output.

 

[trex]

the KU63 http://www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/electronics/ku63-motor-controller.html#h2-ku63-motor-controller-facts
has power delivery more like you want, it does not need external speed limiter, so the cut off is gradual.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You can get whatever you want. Your battery can give any power, so that's sorted. You only have to choose a motor and matching controller. If you want lightweight low cost, then a 201 rpm Q100 kit for 15 mph, a 260 rpm Q100H for 19mph,or a 328 rpm Q100 for 25 mph (no good for heavyweights or hills). Alternatively a 250w BBS01 kit can give you speed and torque with slightly more energetic pedalling and crunchy gear-changes.

If you want more torque for weight and hills, a 201 rpm BPM kit for 15 mph. a 350w CST kit for 19mph, a 500w CST kit for 23 mph, and a 328 rpm BPM kit for 25 mph. Alternatively a 350w or 500w BBS01/2 kit as above.

In every kit you get a choice of controllers and control panels

The choice is yours. What more do you need?