looking for somebody to build me a bike

[Todd]

Hi all,

dose anybody know anyone, that might be interested in building me a bike, i want to find a folding
bike, with a 500w motor, I've seen the company in hong kong that sell kits, i need the extra power to
pull a trolly as I'm keeping it on a canal boat, and why it needs to be a compact bike, i have a woosh
folding bike but its not got the power or range i need,
many thanks Todd

 

[LeighPing]

Maybe it would help if you showed your location.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

That was my first question too: Where are you?

You realise that a folding bike with a 500w motor would be quite heavy and awkward to fold? You won't be taking it on the bus or train.

 

[Todd]

HI,

Sorry, yes my location is london, yes i understand it will be heavy but
a smaller folding bike would be smaller than my woosh zephyr, the
weight not a problem but really would love yo have the torque and grater range, d8veh would you ever consider building a bike for me, I've seen you giving balanced advice, and clearly have the knowledge, it would be a great
help if you would, of course at you rates for the time it takes.

todd

 

[Deleted member 4366]

There's still something i don't understand. First we have to check the feasibility of what you want. You have a Woosh Zephyr, which is already a typical small 20" wheeled folding bike, but you want something smaller.

At the same time, you want something with more torque and range.

It should be possible to upgrade your Zephyr to a 10.5Ah battery that can provide a lot more current, and change your controller to say 18 amps, which will probably give 28% more torque. That would cost about £250.

A new bike conversion is unlikely to fold any smaller unless it has smaller wheels. Bromptons go smaller, but they're very difficult to convert. There's also new Dahons, including a Brompton clone, but I don't know enough about them.

I think you need to be a bit more specific about the requirements: how much more range? How small does it need to be? How much torque do you need? How much do you want to spend?

 

[Woosh]

Todd has a Woosh Zephyr-B 2015.
The in-frame battery is 10AH. The motor is a rear BPM and controller is 20A.
It wasn't possible to increase the battery capacity until now.
The new Zephyr-B has 11.6AH battery but because we move the charging port from the underside of the frame to the left side of the frame, it's not possible to replace the old battery with the new one without drilling a large hole to accommodate the new charging port.
One possibility is to sell the old Zephyr-B and get a new one.

2014 and 2015 Zephyr-B:

2017 Zephyr-B, battery charging port relocated to the left side, USB port and on/off switch added:

The current Zephyr-B specs:

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?zephyr-2017

 

[Beach Thorncombe]

If you were to introduce a 500W motor into the equation, will you be intending to tax and insure your, newly converted, moped when the build is complete?

I ask because a 500W motor will render the new build illegal to run on public land, won't it?

I'm sure potential licensing issues, (re a motor greater than 250w), is a topic discussed countless times on these forum pages but it will be an issue to discuss here IF such an option was being contemplated.

Sounds like upgrading the machine, legally and with a machine suitable to meet your needs inside the law, might be a better option.

 

[brightonebikes]

Hi Todd,
How about something like a Dahon Vitesse d8 folding bike with a crank drive?
One of these with a well programmed Bafang BBS01B 36V 250W and well considered gearing might fit the bill?
It should certainly have no issue towing, plenty of torque available even with a road legal 250W, and would still fold pretty small. (Not as compact as a Brompton, but pretty small).
The battery could be mounted on either the rear carrier rack or (with additional rivet nut(s)) on the top tube?
Just my two penneth for the pot

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Todd has a Woosh Zephyr-B 2015.
The in-frame battery is 10AH. The motor is a rear BPM and controller is 20A.
It wasn't possible to increase the battery capacity until now.
The new Zephyr-B has 11.6AH battery but because we move the charging port from the underside of the frame to the left side of the frame, it's not possible to replace the old battery with the new one without drilling a large hole to accommodate the new charging port.
One possibility is to sell the old Zephyr-B and get a new one.

I assumed the small Zephyr. That makes a bit more logic then. I think I have an idea of what OP is after now. It didn't make sense when I thought he already had a small-wheeled bike.

Still, I'd like the above questions answered.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If you were to introduce a 500W motor into the equation, will you be intending to tax and insure your, newly converted, moped when the build is complete?

I ask because a 500W motor will render the new build illegal to run on public land, won't it?

I'm sure potential licensing issues, (re a motor greater than 250w), is a topic discussed countless times on these forum pages but it will be an issue to discuss here IF such an option was being contemplated.

Sounds like upgrading the machine, legally and with a machine suitable to meet your needs inside the law, might be a better option.

That's no problem. no need for a licence, etc. We can use a 500w 250w motor, like on your Powabykes, only yours is a 500w 200w motor because 200w was the old legal limit. 250w motors are legal and don't require licenses. Just like red and blue 250w motors, you can use 500w and 350w ones. If you don't know what I mean, go for a ride up the nearest hill on your 200w Yamaha thingy, then come back and try it again on your 200w Powabyke. See if you notice a difference.

OP already has a 350w 250w motor in his present bike, which everybody is happy with regarding the legality, so, if we put a similar motor in a 20" wheel he'd get the extra torque he needed and the same power, or probably more power because it would be more efficient.

 

[Beach Thorncombe]

That's no problem. no need for a licence, etc. We can use a 500w 250w motor, like on your Powabykes, only yours is a 500w 200w motor because 200w was the old legal limit. 250w motors are legal and don't require licenses. Just like red and blue 250w motors, you can use 500w and 350w ones. If you don't know what I mean, go for a ride up the nearest hill on your 200w Yamaha thingy, then come back and try it again on your 200w Powabyke. See if you notice a difference.

OP already has a 350w 250w motor in his present bike, which everybody is happy with regarding the legality, so, if we put a similar motor in a 20" wheel he'd get the extra torque he needed and the same power, or probably more power because it would be more efficient.

Hi D8veh,

Thank you for the above and, sure, yes, I accept your useful clarification.

I'm aware of the ambiguous dance that manufacturers play when they, rightly or wrongly, label their motors according to their market,

I'm aware that a motor can peak, (briefly under load), at a rate way above its labeled spec and I'm equally aware of the dear old "Watts = Volts x Amps" mantra I learned as an apprentice electrician in the 70s but ... are you saying that I can install a 500W hub motor, (clearly labelled as such), on a UK pedelec and not fall foul of any law ... assuming I was actually shaking in my boots at ever daring to perform such an anarchic, illegal, move?

 

[Beach Thorncombe]

Copied from this site's comments re the law.

"Nearly all electric bicycles sold in the UK have 250W (rated) motors and conform to both EU regulations and UK EAPC law.

Some electric bikes are currently sold in the UK with motors that are rated at more than 250W however. These bikes do not comply with either the EU or UK law appertaining to EAPCs. They are considered motor vehicles under law and require type approval."

I think I can get to the coast and some of my local coastal haunts without even using public land so I wouldn't ever be fussed about installing an 'illegal' motor if I really felt the urge but ..., without wishing to hijack this thread ... I'd really appreciate a link to guide me regarding such an option because, seriously, the issue must still be an ambiguous one if the law says the limit is 250W yet some here feel motors larger than 250W can still be legal.

Confused of West Dorset

 

[Beach Thorncombe]

Does the term "500W 250W" actually mean a 250W motor capable, (under load), of coping with brief, short loads of up to 500W?

EDIT

... because, that's how the manufacturers can produce and sell a very capable, very powerful hub motor of a far higher wattage but call it, 'merely' a "250W motor" ... to comply with a law ...isn't it??!!??

 

[Alan Quay]

Does the term "500W 250W" actually mean a 250W motor capable, (under load), of coping with brief, short loads of up to 500W?

EDIT

... because, that's how the manufacturers can produce and sell a very capable, very powerful hub motor of a far higher wattage but call it, 'merely' a "250W motor" ... to comply with a law ...isn't it??!!??

You need to better informed before telling others about legality of EAPC's. For the OP's sake it would be best if you did this in another thread.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

 

[Beach Thorncombe]

Hi Todd,
How about something like a Dahon Vitesse d8 folding bike with a crank drive?
One of these with a well programmed Bafang BBS01B 36V 250W and well considered gearing might fit the bill?
It should certainly have no issue towing, plenty of torque available even with a road legal 250W, and would still fold pretty small. (Not as compact as a Brompton, but pretty small).
The battery could be mounted on either the rear carrier rack or (with additional rivet nut(s)) on the top tube?
Just my two penneth for the pot

Basic bike weight 11.2kg + BBS01B 3.8kg + Battery 5.0kg = 20kg. :-(

Still a bit heavy?

For the record, do we know what the lightest, most affordable, (or popular) pedelec folder is ... at say a max £999 price point?

 

[Beach Thorncombe]

You need to better informed before telling others about legality of EAPC's. For the OP's sake it would be best if you did this in another thread.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

And, perhaps, Alan Quay, (removed by Admin - absolutely no need for that sort of language)

 

[brightonebikes]

Basic bike weight 11.2kg + BBS01B 3.8kg + Battery 5.0kg = 20kg. :-(

Still a bit heavy?

For the record, do we know what the lightest, most affordable, (or popular) pedelec folder is ... at say a max £999 price point?

Battery more like 2.6kg (11.6Ah 29E Samsung for instance).
Generally the complete kit comes in at about 9kg all told with cable ties, rubber padding blocks etc.
So yes, about the 20kg mark?
Pop a smaller battery on if the required range is less?
Mounting the battery on the main frame tube ahead of folding mechanism would provide improved balance and handling especially if towing uphill, and shouldn't compromise folding.
Very neat the way the Woosh bike has battery in the frame though, looks a good option too.


Sent from here to there with computer wizardry.

 

[Woosh]

Thank you BE. The battery is 11.6AH, weighing about 1.7kgs, not huge but enough capacity for most days-out. I'd like to think of the Zephyr as a fun, go anywhere full-sus bike that just happens to be foldable.

 

[brightonebikes]

Thank you BE. The battery is 11.6AH, weighing about 1.7kgs, not huge but enough capacity for most days-out. I'd like to think of the Zephyr as a fun, go anywhere full-sus bike that just happens to be foldable.

1.7kg is good, every little helps . I have seen an older one and it's a very neat design. The new charge plug location allowing larger capacity looks even cleaner.
A very good option at the price.

 

[flecc]

the issue must still be an ambiguous one if the law says the limit is 250W yet some here feel motors larger than 250W can still be legal.

The technical standards for pedelecs are specified in EN15194, and most e-bikes on the market are approved laboratory tested to meet the standards.

In brief, EN 15194 requires a pedelec is capable of delivering 250 watts continuously without self damage, but does not set a maximum power limit.

Both of my last two approved e-bikes deliver well over the 250 watts continuously without damage or uncontrolled temperature rise, even on very hot summer days. Gross is around 1000 watts and throttle only can deliver to the road over 560 watts continuously. Calculation from actual climb performances confirm that.

And as I believe I mentioned previously, your Powabyke Euros will slog continuously with 600 watts at 7 mph when climbing. Indeed a few years ago A to B magazine published a graph of that Powabyke power curve.

EN15194 will cost you £190 from BSI publications, or £90 if you are a member of the BSI. It's not a great bedtime read though!
.