Looking for a reliable (and fun?) commuter

[Col. Max Pyatnitski]

Hi all,
New here, though I've been reading the forums (fora?) for a few days, and reading about ebikes/pedelecs for a few weeks.

TL;DR : If you skip the background below, what I need is a reliable daily commuter that I can use for 5x20 mile round-trip commute weekly for a sustained period of time. Maintenance should be maneageable and routine.
Budget of about €2000, but less obviously better
I'd like the bike to feel relatively active/responsive, and I've test driven Cube hybrids and Orbea Gains so far.
Qs:

• Any other bikes/makes I should look at? I've been around main bike shops here, and traditional online bike shops. But there's a plethora of online ebike/pedelec offerings that I find hard to parse.
• Any particular setups that are more/less reiiable/maintainable? Some threads here seemed to indicate central drive was more of a maintenance challenge. Any technologies that are more "hackable"/"open-source type"? Any tools to buy?
  
• Is buying online sensible enough for something like this?

Long version/background info:
I'll try and lay out my transport need. Apologies the post is long, but I've seen lots of posts here where the first response is to ask for more clarification.

Background/Situation: I'm shortly changing job, and will have a 20 mile round-trip commute across Dublin city. Public transport is awkward, I'd rather get out of the car, and so I'm looking at bicycles again.
Google maps reckons a 1 hr cycle there, (I'll drop 27m of elevation as I head to river (2 miles), then climb 100m on the far side (8 miles)) and 50mins back. That's at the upper end of the time I want to spend cycling, and the long climb to the office would leave me more tired/sweaty than I want to be every day.

Me: I'm 42, 5'9", not fit but at least not overweight. Cycle occasionally on an old (20 yrs!) but decent (triple butted steel Trek) mountain bike with slicks, no suspension. I like to ride quickly and actively (taking lane, keeping up with traffic, etc.,). Used to cycle all the time.

What I've been looking at/testing so far:

• Cube:
  • Was first looking at some 2018 bikes online from Germany. Cube Cross Hybrid Pro @ €1839 or Cube Cross Hybrid Pro All Road (lights, mudguards) @ €1919 both in 54cm. These have the Bosch CX drive, 10 speed Deore.
    
  • Then found a Cube Touring Hybrid One 2018 in a Dublin LBS, for €1749. This has the Bosch Active Line Plus (50Nm) drive, and lower spec drive train (Altus I think). On plus side: carrier, mudguards, lights. Also easy for me to use Irish cycle-to-work which would knock €500 off the above price.
• Orbea:
  • First bike I liked the look of (online) was the Orbea Gain. They're few and far between in the shops, but I managed to test-ride 2 of them, a D30 (drop handle-bars, tiagra, 2x10 gears) available for €2450, and I think an F40 (straight-bar). Another good shop will have a demo D31 in in November.
  • Also tested a Keram, was very similar to the Touring Hybrid One in setup, except €100 more expensive and a little bit lower spec.

Thoughts so far:

• I didn't like the riding position on the Touring Hybrid One when I rode it: felt too "sit up and beg"/Dutch bike for me. The geometry on the Cross Hybrid (Pro) is basically the same, though I haven't tested. That said, there's more room for adjustment in modern headset & stem than I'd realised, so maybe could adjust that.
  The assist element felt nice, although I was continually trying to go faster than the assist-limit. The suspension fork seems like a waste of complexity/weight to me, but maybe makes sense for heavy bikes like these.
• I very much liked the dropped-handlebar posture of the D30. Found steering and brakes fine/good. Found gear-shifting much harder to get my head around with the brake-lever shifters, and for a commuter I'd almost like to forego a front-dérailleur if I could (like the D31, though that's more expensive again). Same frame on the F40, and I was less keen on riding position, though I think a little better than the Cube tourer.
  Assist also felt quite nice, and I appreciated the overall lightness of the bike (14kg or so), feels nicely agile.

 

[Deno]

I have a Cube eMTB and use it for a similar distance commute in Dublin. I have detailed my experience here:
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/cube-reaction-hybrid-hpa-pro-500-2017.32618/

As I have said the bike has been excellent so far, especially in terms of reliability. On reflection I would have maybe bought something lighter and with a lower profile for less drag. A lot of the brands promoted here (e.g. Oxygen) do not have dealers in Ireland as far as I can see which limits use of the bike to work scheme. Also it seems that the market in Ireland is dominated by Crank drives from Bosch / Yamaha / shimano, all very much closed source in terms of mods / fixes.

Haibike are another brand you should look at, sold by Greenaer in Dublin. Aurel is the guy to talk to there. Also try Cyclesuperstore who are maybe a bitt cheaper. My current ebike pin-up is this btw. https://www.haibike.com/en/IT/bikes/668/2018-xduro-urban-4-0

 

[Col. Max Pyatnitski]

I have a Cube eMTB and use it for a similar distance commute in Dublin. I have detailed my experience here:
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/cube-reaction-hybrid-hpa-pro-500-2017.32618/

Thank you for that pointer, and for the very detailed report!
That's probably closest to the Cross Hybrid Pro I linked, though a bit more MTB geometry rather than hybrid/tourer geometry. But from weight point of view, just the same, and similar quality of drivetrain. The Touring Hybrid One I mentioned would be a fair notch down on e.g. derailleur, cassette, etc., and a different motor.

As I have said the bike has been excellent so far, especially in terms of reliability. On reflection I would have maybe bought something lighter and with a lower profile for less drag.

In fairness to yourself, you're also taking a very proactive approach to maintenance and preventative interventions (seal replacements etc.,). I'm happy to do that too, but would need to build up the tool-chest further and set a schedule in place.

I hadn't looked much at Haibike, but I was in GreenAer already, and was on email with Aurel. They're very low on stock right now, and sort of working from a higher price point than I am (€2k being their rock bottom, while my top end is 2k to maybe maybe €2.5k)

Is there a specific resource for CX drive reliability, or should I just search through the forums here?

 

[Deno]

I hadn't looked much at Haibike, but I was in GreenAer already, and was on email with Aurel. They're very low on stock right now, and sort of working from a higher price point than I am (€2k being their rock bottom, while my top end is 2k to maybe maybe €2.5k)

Is there a specific resource for CX drive reliability, or should I just search through the forums here?

Here is the best place for info I believe, frequently by people bemoaning Bosch, maybe I have just been lucky with mine although as one of the most popular drive systems they will by definition have more failures.

Yeah I found Greenaer a bit pricey alright, although good for servicing etc. Also the standard Haibikes seem to be much the same as the standard Cubes, mid-drive, eMTB's with suspension.

I am not sure about suppliers of other drive systems, rear hub drive for example. People on here would suggest that they are more suitable for commuting. That may be so, I don't have any experience so I cannot compare. What you will need if commuting is a dealer to support you should you get a breakdown.

Incidentally, Chainreaction accept the cycle to work scheme, depends on your employers position if they allow you to buy online. I used my wifes scheme as she is civil service and they recognise them.

 

[Trevormonty]

The CX drive is better on big moderate to steep hills, but takes more effort to ride past 25kmh cutoff because of internal gear box.

If your climbs are gentle Tourer with Plus motor would be fine upto 25kmh cutoff.
1) Easier to ride unassisted due to direct drive.
2) 9spd with standard cassette will climb all but steepest climbs and then you have option of fitting wide ratio 11-40t cassette.
3) 9spd chains and cassettes are cheap. With daily 20mile commute expect to go though 2-3 chains and maybe cassette are year.
4) Easy enough to upgrade very average Altus derailluer to something like Alivio or XT. Alternatively go for internal hub like Nexus of Alfine 8. Not that expensive for complete 700cc wheel and hub. No derailluers/cassettes to clean and single speed chains will give year and cheap to replace.

NB CX drive can't be used with 8spd hubs, only Nuvinci and Rohloff.

Also try bike with shimano Steps motor.

 

[DynatechFan]

not really in a position to comment on the bike choice, though I did have a Merida Steps equipped central drive bike for a while and liked it for what it was, have a home built rear hub drive now

One comment on "manageable maintenance" - on my commuter I run 3 chains (actually just swapped in a new transmission last week after many years) and pull the chain out to clean after a hundred miles or so. Using KMC split links makes it so easy to get chains on/off. Cleaning chains "off bike" is very easy (I use Screwfix degreaser at £6 a gallon in aluminium Birdseye fish trays). Swapping chains regularly spreads the wear out, by the time 3 chains are tired the cassette is too. Given the smaller chainring on a centre drive that would probably be done too

 

[Trevormonty]

I replace CX chainring with chain, when I didn't it gave me no end of problems with chain suck.

At €8 for chainring and €25 for chain its cheap investment.

 

[Deno]

I replace the chain and cassette every 2k miles on my bike. Costs 40euro and takes 20min. I am trialling an ebike specific chain now, we will see if that gives better service. I buy the parts in advance. The front cog on bosch CX can be swapped over to give 4k miles. I degrease the chain on the bike with a chain cleaner although I probably don't do this as often as I should.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I use Wippermann Connex because I was disappointed by the KMC chain I tried. Coming up to 3000 km I can see it will need changing soonish and as I am going to swap out the rear wheel the cassette will be replaced by a DNP freewheel on the Mxus hub motor.

 

[Col. Max Pyatnitski]

Thanks for all the replies, I haven't bought anything yet but you've helped me clarify my thoughts. Updates:

• @Deno in particular: Thanks for all the Bosch CX info. I read a bunch of threads on it since your post. I've decided that even though it's a setup that can work well for long haul, it can be a bit of a russian roulette too. So, I'm not going to buy such a system unless from a bike shop I can drive to (i.e. not from German online retailer where I saw best prices)
• The discounted Cube tourer (Bosch Active) I looked at was sold since. However, new Cube stock at same shop only marginally dearer, so no big deal if I decide to go back that direction later.
  
• I'm now leaning mostly towards Orbea Gain of some type. I've tested 2 bikes, though not for long enough. However, what I tried I really liked; also really like the look of the bike in its various setups, and they seem to have minimal drag when ridden unassisted. In November I'll go back to the shop I talked to (not very local LBS) and try to do a longer test. The owner there knows the range back to front and gets the concept. All going well, I'll probably order some variant of Gain.