London 20mph Speed Limit to Save Cyclists

[EdBike]

London plans speed limit curb to save cyclists | Bicycle Business | BikeBiz

Interesting article - will definitely help with cycling over bridges (which seem to be the only place where a Londoner can put their foot down!).

 

[indalo]

It's a great idea in my opinion. Such limits exist already in small areas and I really don't see why all urban areas shouldn't have the 30mph limit reduced to 20mph.

Of course, there are many who would completely disregard a 20mph limit in exactly the same way as they disregard every other speed limit and that's why we need enforcement to ensure people comply. I've mentioned it before but we really, really need a highway patrol in this island of ours. Only when people understand that breaking traffic laws is not very different to breaking other laws (AND WE CALL IT A CRIME!) will we ever see improved driving standards in the UK.

I know that flecc has a view on driving tuition and the driving test in the UK and I think I possibly find myself in agreement with him on this issue for the following reason. Having driven extensively through europe for many years, of the first world countries, (the western end of mainland europe) the most stringent driving test, according to what I've read, is the Spanish one. Incredibly, Spain is the country in which I have noted the most consistently bad driving. France can be a frightening experience if you haven't done it before as everyone seems to drive their Clios etc foot to the floor at all times. The French simply don't observe speed limits, end of!

All that said, the general driving skills I have encountered in France have been pretty good. In Spain, however, it's a different story. Many young Spaniards drive very fast, too fast but they drive STUPIDLY with it! It seems to be a trait picked up from the older generation who are simply useless behind the wheel of a car.

Standards in Germany, Holland, Belgium and the Scandanavian countries are all much better than in southern europe and I'm at a loss to explain why there are noticeable differences. Perhaps it's a cultural thing as when we watch football, there's definitely a marked difference between British refs and their mainland europe counterparts, well, the latin countries certainly!...I don't know.

Anyway, to get back to the point, an enforced, well policed 20mph limit in urban areas might just get some drivers thinking they'd be better off cycling so yes, I'm all for it.

Indalo

 

[JuicyBike]

Theres a speed that is slow enough for pedestrians cyclists and cars to all cooperate with each other, without causing any delays for any one group.

A speed that is slow enough for eye contact to be made enables everyone to continually slightly adjust course such that no one need stop or expect others to stop. Pedestrians adjust to each other because they can recognise what others are about to do, almost intuitively.

Cars at 30mph simply monopolise the road forcing pedestrians and cyclists to give way. Cars at 20mph are far easier to cooperate with.

 

[allen-uk]

There are a couple of 20mph zones local to me, and the only way they are 'enforced' is by speed bumps. I don't mind the bumps in my car, but they're a bit of a pain on the bike, as they're the sort that go right across the road, leaving about 4" between bump and kerb, scarcely enough to slowly wheel a bike through!

But they most definitely ARE safer roads to ride on. You can creep up to a T-junction often with time to look both ways and ride on even if a car is coming - you know that it'll have to at least slow down for the next lot of bumps!

Allen.

 

[lemmy]

There are plenty of 20mph limits round my way. The speed of cars along them seems pretty much the same as roads with a 30 limit.

Given the enforcement we have, the 20mph limit would seem to be as effective or ineffective as the mobile phone laws.

But we have people paid to legislate so legislate they will.

 

[indalo]

I have this very simple though ruthless plan to get the attention of all those who choose to ignore the law when they get behind the wheel of a vehicle.

1) Create a Highway Patrol...thousands of them!

2) On being caught committing an offence, instant forfeiture of the vehicle for a minimum of one month.

3) Any subsequent offence within 125 years punishable by death by hanging.

4) Driving without insurance, death by hanging from the nearest lamp post.

If you tell me those are the rules, believe me, I won't cause you a problem guv,nor!


Indalo

 

[z0mb13e]

I have this very simple though ruthless plan to get the attention of all those who choose to ignore the law when they get behind the wheel of a vehicle.

1) Create a Highway Patrol...thousands of them!

2) On being caught committing an offence, instant forfeiture of the vehicle for a minimum of one month.

3) Any subsequent offence within 125 years punishable by death by hanging.

4) Driving without insurance, death by hanging from the nearest lamp post.

If you tell me those are the rules, believe me, I won't cause you a problem guv,nor!


Indalo

That's all well and good until you fall foul of the law through no fault of your own, then you will hear 'ignorance is no defence'. A long time ago I once found myself driving without insurance unintentionally (all the time believing that the insurance company were good to their word) and upon discovering the lack of a renewal, put it right within hours along with further assurances from said insurance company that this 'glitch' wouldn't affect continuous cover. Long story short, they lied. I got 6 points and a £500 fine. Better than hanging I guess...

 

[RoadieRoger]

Perils of Cycling

Don`t wish anything nasty or more Legislation on fellow road users , things have a habit of coming back to bite you . As a cyclist and motorcyclist I am constantly defending cyclists on the MCN Forum after rants against the Lycra brigade in London about jumping lights , undertaking and generally breaking the rules . Then I see unfriendly views about PTW Riders in Bus lanes expressed by some people from the CTC . Can`t we all get along .
The obvious answer is to separate cyclists from heavy vehicles in busy city centres , perhaps pinching a bit of road for extra pavement , then dividing the pavement in two , one lane for us !My only experience of riding in London was around Raynes Park and there were dedicated cycle tracks in lots of places , but in others ,the red cycle lanes near the gutter were often obstructed by parked vehicles .A wider split pavement would have cured this .
All we have here in the Vale of Glamorgan is a starter box at lights . Further North of Cardiff they have dedicated cycle paths , often sabotaged with glass and nails .

 

[HarryB]

The roads are now a complete mess with various speed limits - some appropriate but many not. London is a good example where boroughs take different approaches. Enfield/Barnet not interested in 20mph speed limits but Haringey/Islington mad for it - 20mph zones on roads I would consider main roads - certainly not side/residential roads or even cycling routes. In Haringey, Crouch End, the limit inexplicably changes to 20 just outside the shopping zone and all the side roads are marked as 30. It all goes to show that many of the limits are a nonsense and confuse drivers.

I don't know if it is a coincidence but we now have a bigger disparity of drivers - some overly cautious and some seem to have no controlling mechanism when it come to speed. The former used to fail their test for "failing to make progress" or maybe they are just plain drunk as there is less risk of getting caught. The latter group show how changing the limit and not enforcing it is a waste of time.

 

[Mussels]

Theres a speed that is slow enough for pedestrians cyclists and cars to all cooperate with each other, without causing any delays for any one group.

A speed that is slow enough for eye contact to be made enables everyone to continually slightly adjust course such that no one need stop or expect others to stop. Pedestrians adjust to each other because they can recognise what others are about to do, almost intuitively.

Cars at 30mph simply monopolise the road forcing pedestrians and cyclists to give way. Cars at 20mph are far easier to cooperate with.

In a 20mph limit I can monopolise the roads so cars and pedestrians are forced to give way. I like that but slow cars do get in the way a bit.

 

[flecc]

The relationship between speed and safety is related to human ability in my view.

We have evolved over millennia to cope with and survive the performance that we are capable of unaided. Ignoring the Usain Bolt's of this world, average humans can run at up to 18 mph.

Since 20 mph is a speed very close to that, it's adoption should bring disproportionally large benefits in both accident occurrence reduction and accident injury outcomes.
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