Lockdown

[Woosh]

They ran for it then later returned, the following order was to shoot the lot !

where did you get that last bit from?
If I understand the story correctly, before the CV lockdown, a slump was bulldozed by the authorities, making those who lived there homeless. When the curfew came, they took to the streets to protest. Police came and dealt with them in their usual heavy handed way but it wasn't about feeding. The local issues are many: poverty, joblessness, drug, local insurgency, lack of social security and healthcare.
But order to shoot the lot?

 

[flecc]

I would be happy if Hancock ordered a complete lockdown, which he may yet do, and I‘m self employed.

I'm betting you live in a house of several rooms with a garden.

There are huge numbers in our cities like here in London who effectively live in one often small room in what is laughingly called a studio flat. Often they don't even have much of a window, and that sometimes looking at a blank brick wall. The one relief they get from that existence is being able to get out into a local park or similar for a short while every day, or in the absence of one, just to be able to walk the street for a while.

There will always be those who flout rules to the disadvantage of others, but that is never an excuse for blanket punishment, especially not of the most unfortunate among us.

As I remarked about Matt Hancock, some people just don't think beyond their own circumstances.
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[E-Wheels]

People's lives are at stake.
It is quite reasonable for the Police to separate groups and send them home.
I heard that in Spain, if you are found outside your house without a good excuse, you get arrested and they won't let you go until you pay the fine.
If you have been caught before for a violation, you stay in jail and have to go to court.

Same in SA https://www.sanews.gov.za/south-africa/over-2000-arrests-non-compliance-covid-19-rules

 

[BazP]

I'm betting you live in a house of several rooms with a garden.

There are huge numbers in our cities like here in London who effectively live in one often small room in what is laughingly called a studio flat. Often they don't even have much of a window, and that sometimes looking at a blank brick wall. The one relief they get from that existence is being able to get out into a local park or similar for a short while every day, or in the absence of one, just to be able to walk the street for a while.

There will always be those who flout rules to the disadvantage of others, but that is never an excuse for blanket punishment, especially not of the most unfortunate among us.

As I remarked about Matt Hancock, some people just don't think beyond their own circumstances.
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It’s a bit strong calling this a “blanket punishment” when it’s about saving your life.

Feel free to wander about at will but I won’t be anywhere near you.

Actually there is more than one relief that people can get and the other one is death.

 

[RossG]

where did you get that last bit from?
If I understand the story correctly, before the CV lockdown, a slump was bulldozed by the authorities, making those who lived there homeless. When the curfew came, they took to the streets to protest. Police came and dealt with them in their usual heavy handed way but it wasn't about feeding. The local issues are many: poverty, joblessness, drug, local insurgency, lack of social security and healthcare.
But order to shoot the lot?

As I recall it was on a Radio 5 Live late show. Someone reporting in said they had trouble in the Philippines with rioters protesting about lack of food, IIRC these were homeless people and those with absolutely nothing.
The authorities were ordered by the Governor (or whatever) to clear them off the streets, that worked for a while but they later returned. The Troops/Police were then told if they really would not disperse they were to be shot.
I'm sure the reporter used the words "shoot them all" indicating not just ringleaders but everybody who refused to obey the order.

 

[flecc]

It’s a bit strong calling this a “blanket punishment” when it’s about saving your life.

Feel free to wander about at will but I won’t be anywhere near you.

No it's not strong at all, the way the rules are being thoughtlessly applied by some idiot police officers is unnecessary blanket punishment. Everyone's circumstances are different and it's for each individual to do what they can in their circumstances to comply for best separation. No politician or police officer knows what that is for any one of us, which is why there cannot be absolute rigidity in the rules.

That's why everyone needs to listen to what is actually being said in the rules, which includes "Try to" and "As far as possible".

In no way does the going out by those trapped in cramped accommodation mean they will be breaking separation rules. That seems to be your assumption.

And you won't be getting anywhere near me since I'm practising wherever possible greater separation when out than the government's inadequate recommendation. I'm also living alone in isolation.
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[RossG]

It really all depends on where you are located. Although I have two homes the house isn't up to much and I really prefer the flat I'm in now. No garden of course but up here in the fresh air I can see for miles in all directions it's a very unique place, I even have built in air filtering so it's cleaner in here than outside !
I miss travelling out to the countryside but there again food deliveries are no problem at all, big town = big stores all well stock (well they are now)
Swings & roundabouts, it affects everybody one way or another no matter what your circumstances.

 

[flecc]

Swings & roundabouts, it affects everybody one way or another no matter what your circumstances.

But with a vastly different range of effects from very little effect to serious health affecting restriction.
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[RossG]

Two interesting stories on CNN, firstly that Trump knew all along what as coming as he was presented with a report of what was in store. He on the other is saying no one foresaw it arriving.
Another report reckons the US will never return to normality until everyone in the country is vaccinated which could be years away.

 

[flecc]

Another report reckons the US will never return to normality until everyone in the country is vaccinated which could be years away.

If true that surely must apply to all affected countries.

However I do wonder how desirable normality is in the USA. The obscene wealth of Beverly Hills and the drugs and unemployment ridden slums of Denver are not a good normality to return to.
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[PeterPi]

I'm still going out for permitted socially-distant bike rides but I live in a rural area with deserted country lanes and barely see anyone. There's hardly any traffic and I've even seen ducks and chickens out on the roads.

Same here. Seldom see anyone and when you do they are as keen to stay clear of you, as you are of them. However there was one exception yesterday when a couple walking on the foot/cycle path walked either side of the path so I has to go between them. They may have been keeping two meters apart, but they could have walked in single file. There was also a snatched part of a conversation between two teenagers, walking next to each other, where one was saying "my mum told me to....". So it seemed unlikely that they were from the same household.

 

[sjpt]

Two interesting stories on CNN, firstly that Trump knew all along what as coming as he was presented with a report of what was in store. He on the other is saying no one foresaw it arriving.
Another report reckons the US will never return to normality until everyone in the country is vaccinated which could be years away.

I've realized that Trump doesn't go in for spin. Spin works out how best to weave facts into a palatable result. Trump doesn't bother to use facts even as a starting point.

I'm still in two minds about the UK government on that.

 

[Tarka]

Some normally quiet lanes where I live, a vast increase of people wandering along since the lockdown. With hardly any cars they, their kids and dogs are all over the place and panic when a cycle is approaching.

They should keep them on a lead, including the dog.

 

[Darthpaul]

I’d say prior to the ‘lockdown’ 70-80% of my riding was on towpaths, cycle paths and old converted railway lines. The last few weeks I reckon I’m 90% on the road as it’s quieter and feels safer than dodging the wandering walkers and rusty old bikes people have found in the shed in the last week!

 

[BazP]

No it's not strong at all, the way the rules are being thoughtlessly applied by some idiot police officers is unnecessary blanket punishment. Everyone's circumstances are different and it's for each individual to do what they can in their circumstances to comply for best separation. No politician or police officer knows what that is for any one of us, which is why there cannot be absolute rigidity in the rules.

That's why everyone needs to listen to what is actually being said in the rules, which includes "Try to" and "As far as possible".

In no way does the going out by those trapped in cramped accommodation mean they will be breaking separation rules. That seems to be your assumption.

And you won't be getting anywhere near me since I'm practising wherever possible greater separation when out than the government's inadequate recommendation. I'm also living alone in isolation.
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I’ve just been watching a live Parliamentary broadcast on Emergency Police Powers. They questioned police forces around the country and I didn’t think that any of them were overusing their powers.
The main problem areas seem to be groups (two or more) of people sunbathing and drinking in parks, gangs of youths hanging around and several house parties. Non of these seem to fit in with once per day exercise however you interpret it unless it’s exercising you arm drinking beer.

Interestingly, the Derbyshire drones originated from a request from many locals for the police to do something regarding the crowds. It may have been controversial but it certainly had the desired effect whitness the last weekend.

However vague the government instructions it doesn’t take much common sense to work out what need to be done to stop this virus. Although, perhaps we are waiting for the common sense to arrive along with the PPE.

 

[flecc]

I’ve just been watching a live Parliamentary broadcast on Emergency Police Powers. They questioned police forces around the country and I didn’t think that any of them were overusing their powers.
The main problem areas seem to be groups (two or more) of people sunbathing and drinking in parks, gangs of youths hanging around and several house parties. Non of these seem to fit in with once per day exercise however you interpret it unless it’s exercising you arm drinking beer.

Interestingly, the Derbyshire drones originated from a request from many locals for the police to do something regarding the crowds. It may have been controversial but it certainly had the desired effect whitness the last weekend.

However vague the government instructions it doesn’t take much common sense to work out what need to be done to stop this virus. Although, perhaps we are waiting for the common sense to arrive along with the PPE.

So you've been listening to their excuses and blindly accepted them!

I haven't criticised any of the actions against irresponsibility, indeed I've supported such actions against the genuinely irresponsible.

My criticisms have been of the OTT actions by the police and others such as local authorities, and I was vindicated in what I'd posted the day before yesterday by the government backing down when they instructed local authorities to re-open parks, thus reversing what they'd said previously.

This government have made a complete mess of their handing of this crisis, regularly reversing what they were saying and doing, at the cost of many lives. That is why we are ranking among the worst in Europe for the deaths and trends.

As far as I can I'm not going to have my life or others threatened by their incompetence and therefore include my own better decisions on keeping myself and all others safe and healthy.

You can be a zombie and fall for their propaganda and excuses for the mistakes they've made, but I won't and neither will I take any lessons from your blind acceptance that they are getting it right.

I could give a list of how they have got it wrong, but I'd probably be wasting my time against a closed mind.
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[RossG]

Now here's an interesting thing. My partner is diabetic and she's just received a text from Diabetes UK informing her that if you happen to belong to the Black, Asian or several other ethnic minority groups you stand a much larger chance of catching Covid-19 than if you are white skinned.
Apparently one third of all individuals that have contracted the virus come from what's called (BAME) groups which is disproportional to the general populus. Can't see that going unchallenged.

 

[flecc]

Now here's an interesting thing. My partner is diabetic and she's just received a text from Diabetes UK informing her that if you happen to belong to the Black, Asian or several other ethnic minority groups you stand a much larger chance of catching Covid-19 than if you are white skinned.
Apparently one third of all individuals that have contracted the virus come from what's called (BAME) groups which is disproportional to the general populus. Can't see that going unchallenged.

I agree, they'd better have some sound data for that risky assertion.

Even if true, the fact that BAME groups are far more likely to be living in high density cities can account for a very big difference in the infection rate that's nothing to do with ethnicity.
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[RossG]

I must admit the Genetic thing had crossed my mind more than once, but it's not something I wanted to bring up on a forum or anywhere else. As you say though flecc high density cities have more to do with the spread than anything else, strange white skin was specifically mentioned though.

 

[RossG]

A quick Google seems it's more than just a theory...oh dear, more trouble brewing.