Lithium-ion Battery Life

[JohnInStockie]

I agree KB that battery improvements have been good over the longer term, but not akin to for example PC improvements. I'm glad your laptop is doing well Jeremy, I have a 1 year old Acer Aspire 5101 with a lithium, and it wont hold a charge longer than 20 mins now (thats why an Asus Eee 901 purchase has just been made, as well as performance), so I think we still have a long long way to go.

John

 

[the_killjoy]

My HP laptop battery has had a life of well under a year ~ I put it down to running it with the mains lead in and charging the whole time, thus showing the importance of a a sensible discharging/charging routine.

 

[flecc]

I have a small lithium rechargeable in a portable minidisc recorder which is fully ten years old now, and it still plays for well over 80% of it's original time. My four year old HP laptop battery has only lost about 25% of it's running time, so as Jeremy says, they can last in the right circumstances.
.

 

[UrbanPuma]

I've had my laptop for 2 years (lithium battery) and get a charge of 1 hour. Initial charge lasted approximately 1 hour 58 mins. Still going strong but would like a battery that lasted at least 3 or 4 hours, so will be purchasing a new one at some point.

 

[Jeremy]

Curiously, my laptop spends whatever time it's not in use plugged in to the charger. It's been used like this since new, nearly 5 years ago, with no ill effects. The charge light on the front of it goes out and the laptop goes cold (it's noticeably warm when charging) within and hour or so of plugging it back in.

I suspect it has a very good BMS that makes sure that the cells are never over charged, or excessively discharged.

Jeremy

 

[Encantador]

Read somewhere years ago that it is best to remove the battery from a laptop when it is always connected to the mains.

Old wives tale??

 

[flecc]

Read somewhere years ago that it is best to remove the battery from a laptop when it is always connected to the mains.

Old wives tale??

The computer magazines often advise this to readers, probably not trusting the BMS.
.

 

[Matt]

I've had my HP for 4 and a half years and it goes through a battery every year!

I have come to the conclusion that it is simply too small a battery for the power requirements

Devices like mobile phones, mp3 players etc have a low variance when it comes to power consumption but, Laptops don't. If you're playing a DVD whilst using a GPRS modem, running multiple programs etc then your pushing the battery beyond its comfort zone. The same thing was seen with the derestricted Torqs.

 

[flecc]

I'm sure you're right Matt. My long lasting HP one probably results from never multi tasking and rarely using it for video purposes. It's mostly used for net access and photo processing when away from home, not very heavy uses.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Battery life

Hello all

I just read in the manual of the Wisper 905se that the battery has a life of 300 cycles. In my calculations, that equates to around 3 years. Is that right?

Considering a replacement battery costs over £300, it seems very expensive.

Do batteries really need replacing after this time?

Thanks for your advice.

Kam

Hi Kam

Sorry that is a typo I have made the changes in the manual, it should read 600 charges.

All the best David

 

[kraeuterbutter]

The computer magazines often advise this to readers, probably not trusting the BMS.

i think its more the heat that is what you should be concerned about...

if the laptop runs every day for several hours, the battery not realy needed because pluged to the electricity-net, its for sure not good to heat the battery to 40°C all time

here laptops also differ, if the battery gets more or less warm

on the picture i posted some pages ago you can also see, that heat effects battery life very much

 

[mikescave]

Battery standard

Pedelec Forums - Electric Bike Forum > Pedelecs Forums > Electric Bicycles
Battery life (again)
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#1 (permalink) 16th August 2008, 22:39
imellor
Member Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 36

Ezee Battery life (again)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apologies for brining up an old subject for discussion. But I have been a proud Ezee Torq owner for about two years. I love the bike and think it is fantastic, but the batteries are driving me mad.
I originally had a Lithium Polymer battery but that died within the year. So I scoured the planet and found a NIMH battery at NYCE in New York and paid a fortune to ship to the UK. Like many others I have found the NIMH much better for my riding style. However after a year this battery is starting to fail, albeit not as spectacularly as the Lithium Polymer. This is also after giving the battery a monthly "conditioning" discharge.
The longest journey I do is to my parents and back which is about 10 miles, which a new battery does with ease, but now I find that after about 8 ½ miles it gives up (this is in un-restricted mode).
I admit that I treat the batteries hard, although I do pedal, I don’t put too much effort in.
But as someone else mentioned in this forum, if I have to keep replacing batteries every year, I might as well buy a normal bike.
We are currently a two car family, so if we downsize to one car, I can at least be re-assured that buying a battery every year is cheaper than running a ca r!!!!!

Discuss……..

Ian

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by imellor : 16th August 2008 at 23:51.


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#2 (permalink) 16th August 2008, 22:58
flecc
Pedelec Guru Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 8,079



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The original was a Lithium-ion one Ian, but they have just introduced a Lithium Polymer, but it's £410 with P & P.

I don't know when you got your NiMh battery, the original 2006 9 Ah ones were fine, but late 2007 the cells became impossible to source at affordable prices for manufacture, the only viable ones used then being the 8.5 Ah ones seen in many bikes, like the original Powacycle Salisbury/Windsor. The discharge rates of those cells are not really up to adequately supplying the powerful Torq 1 motor, so the life can suffer with hard use.

The internal construction with six columns of five cells and limited space make these very difficult to re-cell, and packs can't be bought with that formation.

Other than splashing out on a new battery, one thing I can suggest is one of the LiFePO4 packs that some members have recently bought, mounting it on the carrier instead.

Alternatively you could buy a cheaper 36 volt battery like the £150 Synergie Mistral lithium one and parallel it with your present battery using Schottky diodes for isolation, and that would give you plenty of range and current for power. You'd need to experiment to see if the eZee's HP charger suited the Synergie battery, but it's pretty well a generic with many manufacturers now, Wisper now using them as well as eZee.
.



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#3 (permalink) 16th August 2008, 23:09
imellor
Member Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 36



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by flecc
The original was a Lithium-ion one Ian, but they have just introduced a Lithium Polymer, but it's £410 with P & P.
[/size][/size]

As ever flecc, thank you for a very prompt reply. I hadn't realised that there was a change from Lithium-ion to Lithium-Polymer. I don't mind investing in a new Lithium-Polymer battery, if it is an investment that is going to last, even 18 months to 2 years would be good. However I am guessing that they haven't been on the market long enough to be proven yet?
I think you are right about my NIMH battery, I had such difficulty sourcing a NIMH, I assume it is probably a 8.5Ah one.

Ian


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#4 (permalink) 16th August 2008, 23:31
flecc
Pedelec Guru Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 8,079



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've spent all this year testing a new 4.4 kilo Phylion Lithium Ion one for eZee and it's been superb, and still is at over 250 charges. In parallel, others have been testing a new 3.3 kilo lithium polymer one from another manufacturer, and they've also had excellent results. With that choice open, eZee have opted for the lighter one and that's what's for sale now at Cyclepoint. here's the link to my testing thread:

New eZee battery
.


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#5 (permalink) 16th August 2008, 23:51
imellor
Member Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 36



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by flecc
I've spent all this year testing a new 4.4 kilo Phylion Lithium Ion one for eZee and it's been superb, and still is at over 250 charges. In parallel, others have been testing a new 3.3 kilo lithium polymer one from another manufacturer, and they've also had excellent results. With that choice open, eZee have opted for the lighter one and that's what's for sale now at Cyclepoint. here's the link to my testing thread:

New eZee battery
.

Flecc, is the original Li-ion battery charger suitable for charging the Lithium-Polymer battery, or do I need a new (third) battery charger?

Ian


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#6 (permalink) 17th August 2008, 00:01
flecc
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's fine for it Ian, you don't need a new one. eZee do have an experimental BMS on test which would mean a new high speed charger, but that's for the future and only then if successful.
.


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#7 (permalink) 17th August 2008, 09:07
imellor
Member Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 36



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by flecc
It's fine for it Ian, you don't need a new one. eZee do have an experimental BMS on test which would mean a new high speed charger, but that's for the future and only then if successful.
.

I assume BMS = Battery Management System.
In my experience fast charging of batteries never seems to work very well!!!

As for the Lithium-Polymer, I'll live with the NIMH for a couple more months and will probably invest in a LI-Polymer. I don't think the recent hot tempertures have helped with the charging of my NIMH, so I'll see how it responds in the cooler weather.

Ian


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#8 (permalink) 17th August 2008, 11:30
flecc
Pedelec Guru Join Date: Oct 2006
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Yes, Battery Management System. I agree on fast charging, though I think it's mostly unsuccessful due to poor charger systems, and BMS where used.
.


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#9 (permalink) Today, 21:06
mikescave
Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Cowes, Isle of Wight
Posts: 12

EZEE Liv Battery Life

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

I think I've been conned by 50 cycles! My Ezee liv is superb but the battery is crap! ( Bought JUN 07)

What should I buy as a replacement for my Phylion XH370-105 37v ?

50 Cycles, from whom I purchased my bike , no longer sell Ezee, so I think I've been duped.

I need a replacement battery but according to the new Ezee agents "Cyclepoint" that seems to be £400ish.

It seems to me that I would have been better advised to buy a Powabyke, a company who has agents: and locally to me, and who have a sustainable/realistic battery replacement scheme.

From a very unhappy 50 Cycles customer - I await your comments.

Regards
Mike

 

[rsscott]

Hi Mike,

as you can see this subject has received a lot of coverage on the forum. Unfortunately it is impossible to put a specific number of miles or life on a battery, there are too many variables involved.

While it is unfortunate that eZee and 50Cycles have gone their separate ways, 50Cycles have no control over what Cyclepoint charge for a new battery.