Light short killed it?

[SAD12]

Hi All,

I'm hoping someone can shed some light (pun intended) on a silly mistake of mine. I was fiddling with the front light on my Cyclamatic power plus when I inadvertently managed to short one of the wires against the frame, the other was already connected to the frame. Now there is nothing, no lights on the leds on the handlebars, no joy of any movement. I've checked the battery fuses and they are fine, the battery is putting out 28.4v (I did three miles on it earlier so that seems about right) and I can charge the battery. Where might I start with this? Any ideas? Is there a secret fuse somewhere? (I'm hoping!)

Thanks.

Shane.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

There's no other fuses on the cross-bar Cyclamatic, but it doesn't have lights. You should check in the controller compartment. it's possible that the controller doesn't have a good connection now. Pull the controller out and check that you have 28v going in to it. After that, it's just a case of following the light wires back to where they get their power from. Hopefully, it's directly from the battery.

 

[SAD12]

Well, I've done a bit of dismantling and discovered that there is power coming from the battery into the controller but can't find any power coming out. I was expecting to register 5v to the throttle or the brakes but there's nothing there. I've taken the controller out and found that the lights cables go into this, they are not fused. Looking at the wiring inside the controller it appears that one of the light cables is scorched where it connects to the control board, it's marked the cable next to it. The bike did come with fitted 24v lights (the bulbs are rated to this) and is the one without the crossbar. So, I think I've fried the controller?

 

[KirstinS]

Could you take a photo ?

Only the description sounds like it night a just a fried connection ?

 

[SAD12]

I've taken few pics, the first is the controller label:

This one is the singed wire. The black one is the light wire and it was leaning on the white one, don't know what that one is. Separating them showed this:

I took a photo of the underneath of the controller just to see if folk think this looks OK. I have no idea but I'm thinking brown marks are not a good sign?

 

[jateureka2]

It looks like the track near C1 has vapourised and if you have no 5V on the throttle connector then you've probably blown the 5V regulator.
Looks like you are up for a new controller.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You may be able to repair it if you understand the logic. The light wires would be connected directly to the battery wires via tracks on the pcb, so it's unlikely that any components are damaged. The track used for the lights is probably shared by other points on the pcb that need 24v, and is most likely blown, but you can replace it with a bit of wire.

On the positive side, the red battery wire joins the pcb, and then finds its way to the big resistor in the corner that stands upright. it's most likely this track that's blown. Use a voltmeter to check whether that resistor has the 24v on the corner side. Put your probes between the battery black connection point and that resistor. If no voltage, try joining a bit of wire from the red battery connection point to it.

The negative wire does a similar thing, but there's a few common grounds that all meet at the same point in the corner where the burned wire is. The burning is because one of them over-heated. The white is also a ground, so no damage should've been done there. Check the voltage between that corner and the battery red wire connection point.

The only other possibility is that there's diodes between the battery connections and the points mentioned above. The diodes could blow and go open circuit. Both D10 and D9 look very suspicious, so check them with a meter on beep. They only conduct in one direction,, so you have to test them with your probes both ways round. One way it should beep. It looks like there's one on the positive track and one on the negative. Diodes are very cheap.

 

[SAD12]

Many thanks for the input folks. I haven't replied because I've been away the past week.

Thinking about the practical things you're suggesting d8veh I think it best if I source a new controller and think the KU63 from BMS Battery might be best, it seems to be the same size and similar rating. My reasoning includes something I haven't mentioned and that is that the main motor wires from the existing controller seem to have been overheating where they join the bike loom:



The only reason I can think for this is that the copper in the controller connector is of an inferior grade thus generating excessive resistance and heat. The plastic covers of the green and yellow wires were stuck together so they were an event waiting to happen.

I'm going to keep the original controller and use it to experiment on and find out what exactly went wrong. I've also got myself a book about electronics so I can try to understand more about this stuff for the future.

My bike does remind me of the earlier days of cars when there was little to no standardisation and poor safety features. My 40 year old MG had two fuses to protect all the electrics, nowadays cars have many many more than this. I think I'd like to see some common agreement about the colour coding for starters on the wiring.

Any how, thanks again for the input.

Shane.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The KU63 doesn't fit in the compartment. It's too big. IIRC the box will just fit in, but not the connectors. It's possible that they changed something so you need to check. What is the size of your controller so that we can compare it.

Burnt connectors like yours are very common. It happens when the barrels are not gripping the bullets tight enough. This makes them heat up as the electricity arcs across. It usually happens after you disconnect them and forget to crimp the barrels tight again before re-connecting.

 

[D C]

Burnt connectors like yours are very common. It happens when the barrels are not gripping the bullets tight enough. This makes them heat up as the electricity arcs across. It usually happens after you disconnect them and forget to crimp the barrels tight again before re-connecting.

This is exactly what happened to three of my connectors and I couldn't think why they had melted, thanks for the explanation.
They did seem to be a very tight fit but perhaps not firm enough.
Would it be best to do away with the connectors and solder them instead or is that bad practice?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I solder and shrink-sleeve (2 layers) mine. It's fairly quick to unsolder them if you have to, and most have a connector at the motor anyway.

 

[D C]

I solder and shrink-sleeve (2 layers) mine. It's fairly quick to unsolder them if you have to, and most have a connector at the motor anyway.

Thanks, that sounds like a good plan, now on the "to do" list.

 

[SAD12]

Thanks for the input d8veh. When I ordered the KU63 I had a measure of the existing controller and reckoned that the KU63 might just fit because the end where the wires come out on the original one is very bulky with quite wide grommets. But I fear you might be right about the new one being a tad too big. I've taken a picture with the two of them together and if the KU63 does go in it's going to be a very tight squeeze:



I'm not going to stress about this though as I can always mount it on the frame and tidy it up in some way so it doesn't look like the bodge job it's almost bound to be!

What I am stressing about though, and have spent the evening doing, is the wiring. Never mind the different colours, there are male to female reversals and I'm struggling with identifying which wires do what. I think I've managed to identify most but I guess I won't know 'til I try them. The main ones are fairly obvious like the main power cables, motor hall sensors and the PAS (although why a red live from the PAS turns into a white before vanishing back into the frame goodness only knows). I've identified the throttle but there appear to be some subtleties about the on/off switch, the LEDs on the handlebars and the brake cut offs that I'm puzzling over. On the KU63 the main power comes into a three pin connector,the large red and black wires are fairly obvious but I'm wondering what the thin red wire is there for? Am heads up for this would be helpful.

Shane.

 

[103Alex1]

the main motor wires from the existing controller seem to have been overheating where they join the bike loom:

View attachment 7237

I cut those things off and replaced them with these, which will not give you any such problems ... you need 6 along with a crimping tool :

8 X ANDERSON POWERPOLE 30AMP ELECTRICAL CONNECTOR PANEL MOUNT KIT FOR KIT CAR_RC | eBay

This is the official tool for getting the contacts into the plastic housing, but I just used a multimeter probe and fiddled.

INSERTION/EXTRACTION TOOL FOR 30AMP & 45AMP ANDERSON POWERPOLE CONTACTS | eBay

You can use 2 reds and a black or 2 blacks and a red on each side, and the connectors clip together a bit like lego, so there is no chance of pairing them wrongly in haste.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The thin red wire on the controller is the ignition wire. It has to be connected to the battery positive, so solder a loop to the thick red on one side of the connector. It took me a bit of puzzling to figure out he rather strange wiring when I fitted a KU63. I put mine inside the battery case, which I had previously gutted, and used a rack battery instead. If your good at soldering, you can solder the motor wires directly to the controller PCB to save connector space. My one had a connector behind the chainstay anyway.