Legal /illegal debate - proposal for a better forum

[Artstu]

how do you explain the reason why some members use a dongle if not to avoid the necessary physical effort when going over the speed limit?

Okay all ebike riders are lazy, you were right after all.

 

[electrickery]

My bike is as standard, I don't condone the use of high speed bikes, but appreciate why some would choose to do so, and understand the way they behave having ridden one. My comment stands that it has nothing to do with being lazy.

I must say a friend after trying my revolver went out and bought an e bike . 500w despite my protestations. (he likes big numbers) I have ridden it and can see the fun in it but at the end of the day I rarely use the full 250w..so I'd rather have my range than top speed.
Also artstu rereading my above post I believe you could have seen that as provocative but it was meant to be constructive, honest.. no hard feelings I hope . It becomes all too easy to misconstrue things from behind a keyboard.
Regards
Am away out for a cycle now.. have a good day all

 

[Kudoscycles]

Eddie...I totally agree some 50% of the content of the forum seems now to be devoted to illegal bikes,almost,as though,the more postings about it the more it dilutes the degree of illegality.
The trouble is that in the reality of selling,there are a lot of customers who want illegals and don't see any chance of being prosecuted for using them.
The likes of Kalkhoff,Stromer and Bulls being widely sold by well recognised retailers adds credibility to the notion that the illegality is really only a minor issue.
In our London shop we had a whole family come along with 1000 watt e-bikes,when we explained that they are all illegal,the dad said yeh maybe,it's a grey area,anyway I don't care a .......!
It's sort of parallel with China,the Chinese government have pretty much ignored the limits until it became obvious that 17 year olds riding 4 kW bikes and 2000 plus deaths per year was just too much,now they are crushing them and destroying the e-bike industry at the same .
I must be honest and say that I keep picking up the brochure for a 48v x 500 watt e-bike,I tested one my last visit to China,it's a very fast bike,much faster than all these S-class bikes and would sell for about £1400 with good specification. We have discussions about buying them at Kudos,my staff talk me out of it because at some point there is going to be a bad accident with an illegal,the government will then have a knee jerk reaction and react like the Chinese to rid the country of them,Sod's law that will happen the moment I bring a container load into the UK....Kudos is doing very well why take the risk,but it is frustrating watching others sell these illegals and trading standards and/or the police seem impotent to stop them.
One aspect that is not mentioned about these illegals is range,the 500 watt bike that I tested had a 500 Wh battery but on full power the suppliers estimated a 15 mile range,the reason these S-class bikes have big batteries is because they need them, if you use the power.
I too am fed up with this illegals thread within the forum and then I do a long posting about it,apologies.
If you are all so fed up with them,why not develop an open letter and send it to your local police and/or trading standards,it needs a number of complaints before they will take action.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

If we are to see more people taking on cycle to work, those who want to stay fit, the solution is not the dongle but more light assist bikes, that are built to keep as close as possible to push bikes, like the Gtech (and of course the woosh Karoo).

 

[flecc]

I totally agree some 50% of the content of the forum seems now to be devoted to illegal bikes,

Theres always been this tendency, I think it's fundamental since there's so much more to post about once into the much wider scope of illegality.

Sorry this comment has to include you Dave, but it seems worse now due to those complaining about it.

Back in the early days of the forum when over a third of the whole membership rode a very illegal model, very much more than now, it wasn't particularly noticeable since almost no-one complained about it.

 

[the_killjoy]

I must admit that when I got my wisper I was disappointed with the top speed until I realised that even with a legal bike I was seeing a significant decrease in journey time coupled with a good range.

An increase in speed would be nice but it isn't something that keeps me awake at night.

 

[Kudoscycles]

If we are to see more people taking on cycle to work, those who want to stay fit, the solution is not the dongle but more light assist bikes, that are built to keep as close as possible to push bikes, like the Gtech (and of course the woosh Karoo).

And the upcoming Kudos Alamo and Stealth,fast,low rolling resistance bikes with some assistance,this is the next e-bike phase.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

and for those who like to arrive in style:

who needs a dongle if you have a bike as nice as this?

 

[Kudoscycles]

Theres always been this tendency, I think it's fundamental since there's so much more to post about once into the much wider scope of illegality.

Sorry this comment has to include you Dave, but it seems worse now due to those complaining about it.

Back in the early days of the forum when over a third of the whole membership rode a very illegal model, very much more than now, it wasn't particularly noticeable since almost no-one complained about it.

I agree,from previous postings I think,that you think,that illegals are a minor percentage of the market but in our London shop we are constantly asked for bikes that are faster than 15 mph and many won't buy a KTM unless we fit dongles to them,I suspect it is 30% of the market...it is frustrating not to satisfy those requirements.
Like Eddie,I too was very close to quitting the forum,but reading the forum gives a valuable source of the direction of the e-bike market,ignoring the illegals.
Like China it will end in tears one day,our government don't seem to have an appetite for making fast bikes legal.
The 500 watt bike I rode in China was actually too fast for my reactions at my age,I would have had an accident on it if I regularly rode that bike in the traffic of London. I don't think riders appreciate how quick the current legal Bafang BPM and Max Drive motors are ,IMHO they are quick enough for bicycles.
KudosDave

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Theres always been this tendency, I think it's fundamental since there's so much more to post about once into the much wider scope of illegality.

Sorry this comment has to include you Dave, but it seems worse now due to those complaining about it.

Back in the early days of the forum when over a third of the whole membership rode a very illegal model, very much more than now, it wasn't particularly noticeable since almost no-one complained about it.

Think that is exactly right. Longer established posters need to ask themselves what impression and effect this has on new members.
New members either think illegal bikes must be ok and consider buying one or probably go elsewhere. A few more outspoken ( like me I suppose) say things aren't right and take the corresponding flak.
Should Forum play a part in steering future development or act as a focus point for longer established members, some of whom fully support all illegal aspects.
Forum needs more guidance from above to decide. If its first option mods should delete all illegal discussion and direct it towards pm.
If its latter such as myself should have posts deleted and contact from mods. I,ve not had either.
The mods / owners need to supply and enforce a policy to halt arguments.

 

[Fordulike]

people who ride dongled bikes are lazy.

I invite you to come along and join me doing my full time job, which involves 40+ hours per week of nothing but arduous physical labour.

Plus, you're more than welcome to tag along on my 5 mile run 3 times a week. 5' 9'', 75kg's, 45 years old, fit as a fiddle. The reason I ride an electric bike isn't coz I can't be arsed to pedal!

Lazy... Couldn't be further from the truth mate

 

[D8ve]

I invite you to come along and join me doing my full time job, which involves 40+ hours per week of nothing but arduous physical labour.

Plus, you're more than welcome to tag along on my 5 mile run 3 times a week. 5' 9'', 75kg's, 45 years old, fit as a fiddle. The reason I ride an electric bike isn't coz I can't be arsed to pedal!

Lazy... Couldn't be further from the truth mate

Ironic?

 

[flecc]

Longer established posters need to ask themselves what impression and effect this has on new members.
New members either think illegal bikes must be ok and consider buying one or probably go elsewhere. A few more outspoken ( like me I suppose) say things aren't right and take the corresponding flak.

This isn't at all the position that used to exist long ago. While many members rode illegally fast e-bikes, mainly assisting to around 20/22 mph, mainstream posters like myself always made it very clear what the law was, as I still do.

The difference to now exists in the last sentence I've quoted. While I always made it clear what the law was, and still do, I never took it upon myself to police it or require the forum administrators to. It's the forceful amateur policing that's causing the forum problem.
.

 

[Fordulike]

Ironic?

Not really, a lot of members ride electric bikes not because they are lazy, but due to physical disabilities too.

I have one, as the wooded areas that I ride on have some monster short inclines, that just aren't possible to tackle without assistance.

There are many different reasons why we ride electric bikes.

I hope trex was just trying to be humorous with his lazy comment, but if not, then this forum has deteriorated far worse than I thought.

 

[trex]

I am lazy myself and have been known for riding derestricted bikes, so I am not preaching. There is no criticism from my part about how much power you get on your bike. I also recognize the needs to keep fit, especially for those who are not in retirement age, so I helped in designing the Karoo for this particular market segment. The Karoo has enough assist for you to ride on throttle alone and yet, fast rolling enough to make riding at high speed as easy and as enjoyable as possible so that you arrive pink and not hot.

 

[Fordulike]

I am lazy myself and have been known for riding derestricted bikes, so I am not preaching. There is no criticism from my part about how much power you get on your bike. I also recognize the needs to keep fit, especially for those who are not in retirement age, so I helped in designing the Karoo for this particular market segment. The Karoo has enough assist for you to ride on throttle alone and yet, fast rolling enough to make riding at high speed as easy and as enjoyable as possible so that you arrive pink and not hot.

Ok, no probs trex, no harm done.

Though, an emoticon after a comment usually goes a long way to conveying the tone of the comment

 

[Fordulike]

and for those who like to arrive in style:

who needs a dongle if you have a bike as nice as this?

Absolutely trex, that's a sweet looking bike.

I particularly like the route Oxygen Bicycles have taken with their new line of bikes. Especially the s-cross mtb:

 

[Fordulike]

I also recognize the needs to keep fit, especially for those who are not in retirement age.

Why stop at retirement age? This Grandpa's 70+ and puts most of us to shame lol.


Here's the article about him:

http://izismile.com/2013/06/20/the_most_ripped_grandfather_ever_20_pics.html

 

[flecc]

Why stop at retirement age? This Grandpa's 70+ and puts most of us to shame lol.

Perhaps not. He's got a six-pack, big boobs, defective eyesight and no hair.

I've got a flat one-pack, no oversize boobs, great eyesight and a full head of hair.

And I'm older than him.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

One of the problems is the law trying to blanket cover many different uses in many different situations. You can use a legal bike irresponsibly and be a public danger just as many use an illegal bike responsibly respecting other users of the road.

I don't ride the same way in town as I do on the open road. I don't ride the same way on cycle paths as I do on the roadway. I have no issues with people using a well equipped over powered bicycle as long as they respect other people while doing it. I could turn up the power but don't because I don't have the money to pay for any potential fines and I don't (didn't) have a big enough battery to get the required range.

trex throttles make people lazy not PAS, I have lost the extra 4 kg of fat I was carrying before putting a motor on my bike.