LEF ebike/microcar

When it gets cold out, I get obsessed with completely enclosed ebikes... The LEF's speed limited to 15.5mph, because it'd topple over going any faster. Why the heck didn't they put the two wheels at front, one behind?

 

 

https://www.kuneverda.com/lef_eng/

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBKT6NxxxqE

 

Dutch EV is more than an ebike, less than a car

 

https://newatlas.com/urban-transport/lef-electric-vehicle/

Edited December 27, 20223 yr by guerney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mGIEnisrss:601

It's sooo close, but no cigar. If only they had put two wheels in front! Much more stable at speed IMHO. Like this:

 

Edited December 27, 20223 yr by guerney

I 'd love to try one but no desire to own one - the reason I cycle is to be more in touch with my surroundings. If the weather is uncomfortable then I don't cycle - an advantage of retirement and living in a small town.

When it gets cold out, I get obsessed with completely enclosed ebikes... The LEF's speed limited to 15.5mph, because it'd topple over going any faster. Why the heck didn't they put the two wheels at front, one behind?

 

 

Like this then?

https://cabbike.pl/product/cab-bike-hawk-classic-or-hybrid/

https://cabbike.pl/product/cab-bike-hawk-classic-or-hybrid/

 

No, the long established Cab bike is just that, a pedalled Velomobile.

 

The Dutch one is a fully electric car, no pedalling. But no use here of course, not allowed on any cyclepaths and likely to be a nuisance in the road mixed with 30 mph town traffic.

.

It's sooo close, but no cigar. If only they had put two wheels in front! Much more stable at speed IMHO. Like this:

 

[ATTACH type=full" alt="49873]49873[/ATTACH]

 

We've already had that, the Renault Twizy:

 

 

But discontinued since it didn't sell well enough.

.

I 'd love to try one but no desire to own one - the reason I cycle is to be more in touch with my surroundings. If the weather is uncomfortable then I don't cycle - an advantage of retirement and living in a small town.

 

In cold weather, I want to be as out of touch as possible with surrounding cold! One reason why the Tesla pickup truck's bodywork is easier to manufacture, is the absence of curved panels - I'd like a removable hard cover on a speed pedelec tandem recumbent tadpole trike, using the same sort of approach.

 

Like this then?

 

https://cabbike.pl/product/cab-bike-hawk-classic-or-hybrid/

 

I like that for stability, but not for price and because it isn't fully enclosed, it doesn't get a cigar. And I'll need a powerful motor plus a bit more cargo carrying capacity.

 

Edited December 27, 20223 yr by guerney

the reason I cycle is to be more in touch with my surroundings.

 

It does sound quite unplesant inside the cabin, somewhere in the video above. A dealbraker...

We've already had that, the Renault Twizy:

 

 

But discontinued since it didn't sell well enough.

.

I quite like the Twingo. Rented it once on a skiing holiday in Soldeu many years ago, it's surprisingly roomy inside and fun. Renault make electric Twingos now.

I quite like the Twingo. Rented it once on a skiing holiday in Soldeu many years ago, it's surprisingly roomy inside and fun. Renault make electric Twingos now.

 

Yes, the Twingo has had many favourable reviews here, popular with our motoring press too. An e-Twingo sounds attractive, but a pity its so expensive now. €23k in France, €28k in Germany. Too much for only 60 mile practical range in cold weather.

 

Renault went too far with the Twizy's small size while Citroen have gone too far with the very restricted performance and range of the AMI.

 

Low cost quadricycles can be far more useful and sensible as the Chinese have shown.

.

Edited December 27, 20223 yr by flecc

I am of course taking pre-orders for the UK legal pedelec tandem trike below, price £TBA, many many terms and conditions apply Using Musk's brutalist angular low cost manufacturing approach to bodywork panels. Big solar panel roof, for unlimited miles (if you wait long enough). The hard cover is removable, and oversized to reduce cabin noise.

 

 

 

I'm also accepting pre-orders (not really) for other configurations - a bespoke 14kwh battery for this monstrosity, may be available from [mention=9614]Nealh[/mention] The solar panel charging subsystems may be available from [mention=34503]matthewslack[/mention]

 

 

p.s

 

Assuming that you need to use the car for 100 miles a week 20kwh on something like a twingo. If you have 2sqm of solar panel covering bonnet, windscreen, roof and boot, you can probably run the car without fossil fuel

Assuming that you need to use the car for 100 miles a week 20kwh on something like a twingo. If you have 2sqm of solar panel covering bonnet, windscreen, roof and boot, you can probably run the car without fossil fuel

That's a little optimistic for UK conditions.

 

Expect 4kWh average per day from 1kWp of horizontal solar, so about 700 or 800Wp is the minimum requirement. That in silicon is about 4m2, which is about the footprint of a small hatchback, rather than a Twizy/Twingo.

 

That will only do in the summer half of the year. Low sun and short days with more cloud in the winter half get in the way of self charging autonomy.

 

A lighter vehicle with better aerodynamics would improve things. As would a Spanish/Portuguese/African climate.

 

But build and play! It is very satisfying!

Assuming that you need to use the car for 100 miles a week 20kwh on something like a twingo. If you have 2sqm of solar panel covering bonnet, windscreen, roof and boot, you can probably run the car without fossil fuel

 

A bit tight, but at just two thirds of the national average car mileage (7,300) it may just be possible. With a very rare short boost from a public charger during the dullest winter months, definitely viable.

 

Forget garage parking though!

 

N.B. Post crossed with Matthew's.

.

What is far more achievable year round is an ultra low energy electric vehicle with a static solar charging array that can be adjusted for the sun angle season by season. But the disconnect between the generation and the vehicle makes it easy to lose sight of the original goal, which is a self sufficient vehicle.

 

Without that connection we are back on the path to over large, over weight, over fast but lovely, comfortable, emissions free at the point of use electric versions of fossil fuel vehicles.

 

That's the difference between the currently publicly acceptable talk about fixing climate change - everything the same, just electric, no other changes needed - and what is really needed, but unpalatable to the richer part of the world, which is sharp focus on minimising energy requirements in everything.

That's the difference between the currently publicly acceptable talk about fixing climate change - everything the same, just electric, no other changes needed - and what is really needed, but unpalatable to the richer part of the world, which is sharp focus on minimising energy requirements in everything.

 

The current apparent empassis on electric cars being a significant 'solution' to climate change is completly and uterely pathetic.

 

I was listening to R4 yesterday morning, and something I had realised for a few years was mentioned. Apparently the second hand value of electric cars is falling significantly. No surprise there really, once they are around 5+ years old, the spectre of a very major replacement expense, i.e. the battery, looms.

 

By no means am I suggesting that diesel\petrol cars are good, but at least when they get to 5 years or more old, your not normally faced with a huge maintenace bill or disposing of the vehicle that must have had a significant carbon footprint to produce.

I was listening to R4 yesterday morning, and something I had realised for a few years was mentioned. Apparently the second hand value of electric cars is falling significantly. No surprise there really, once they are around 5+ years old, the spectre of a very major replacement expense, i.e. the battery, looms.

 

This lack of understanding is what happens when a subject isn't closely followed. The fall that Radio 4 and others have commented on follows the ridiculous huge rise in prices of s/h e-cars resulting from severe shortages of new e-cars.

 

I can illustrate this using my own 2018 Nissan Leaf with round numbers:

 

Early 2018 new at £26,000.

 

Mid 2021 WeBuyAnyCar offer of £14,000 at three and half years old

 

Mid 2022 with a severe shortage of chips and new e-cars, WeBuyAnyCar offer of £21,000 at four and a half years old. Clearly a barmy value but due to the desperate shortages of cars.

 

It's been tumbling as sanity returns and the buying public are suddenly much more hard up with the current price increases for energy and food etc. Last check I did was at £19,000 but it will be lower now, and I fully expect it will get back to the 2021 price in the low January market but then rise to some extent again for the spring.

 

So the reported falling prices has simply been a correction for market madness.

 

In truth the value of the s/h ones have been rising as you can see by my today's price for a 4.5 year old being far higher than the mid 2021 one at 3 years old.

 

Nor is your mention of battery replacement cost relevant, those worries went long ago as the batteries outperformed all life expectations. Even before this year's price madness early 8 year old Leafs were selling ok at £7 to £8K.

 

And the s/h ones don't have the carbon footprint you seem to think. The car's footprint is no higher than an ic car and their very long lasting batteries go on to serve in home charging for solar pv panel applications for many more years.

 

I'm not selling my e-car nor ever intend to, but with my long motor trade background I like to keep tabs on trends.

.

Edited December 28, 20223 yr by flecc

In about 6 - 8 years time , I wouldn't mind one of those citroen ami's with a defunct or in need of a battery and be able to buy one cheaply. One could then simply add a 48v 14KW LFP a lot cheaper then one expects a replacement official 5.5kw would cost.

but at the end of the day that batt will die and if you do 100 miles a day i doubt it will make 4 years esp if you ramp it.

 

the question is can you buy a new oem batt for a car that is 8-10 years old ?

 

then can you just buy one or will it be a dealer job as need the software to pair it to the controller.

 

it is pretty clear these things like the batts and motors are not to be serviced and just replaced and use locked software just like bosch ect as will just make them even more money.

 

at least if you covert a ice car to your own setup in 10 years time a new batt and motor could be fitted no problem and as good as new just like my bike.

 

if apple made a e car ppl in there millions would buy one just to go with there phone and can use it to open the door and fire it up.

Yes woul ddepend on the sytem used , one would be fooked if battery to controller CAN was used. By then micro EV may be sussed out .

In about 6 - 8 years time , I wouldn't mind one of those citroen ami's with a defunct or in need of a battery and be able to buy one cheaply. One could then simply add a 48v 14KW LFP a lot cheaper then one expects a replacement official 5.5kw would cost.

 

Could be much sooner than 6 to 8 years Neal. The ratio of battery capacity to usage could mean a much shorter life, since with the maximum speed of 28 mph it will be driven flat out much of it's life. Very unlike most e-car usage.

 

It's not a Citroen design, the Capgemini oufit designed it and Citroen have said they accept no responsibility for the design, only marketing it.

.

problem is there all at it now even new tv remotes come with lipo batts glued in the fkn things and 100 quid for a new one

 

now if they made these car batts universal and modular batts and chargers for all brands i could see it working but thats never going to happen because of greed and corporate control.

Yes I saw that Capgemini makes it , it is also marketed under the Opel badge as a Rocks- e.

Simply any company can sell the design under there own name as Capgemini have designed it as an open market concept to which both citroen and opel have decided to add it to their ranges with changes in badging , liveries and specs etc but in essence the same vehicle.

 

I saw my first one recently in Lingfield on a 40 strectch of road.

Edited December 28, 20223 yr by Nealh