I see no benefit in a fragmented society, particularly when religion gets involved. There are just too many examples of religious strife, even in Northern Ireland.
Leaving the EU
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
London is the most successful part of the UK, and also the most fragmented. Here we are all minorities since even the white British born are well under half of the population. We have all 300 of the worlds main languages spoken and all of the religions but these don't stop us all getting on well with each other.
My neighbours either side are Jamaican and Middle Eastern respectively and of the charming couple opposite, the husband is Iranian and his wife Czech and they married in Italy. And we're all good friends. My doctor of almost 30 years is Spanish, my dentist is of Chinese parentage, my optician is from Iraq, and my very successful cataract operations giving me the best sight I've ever had in my life were carried out by an Indian consultant. Fifty four years ago my problem appendix was removed by a black African surgeon.
Where is the problem with this?
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I have stated very clearly that I support the concept of refugees fleeing danger and persecution, so it is unnecessary for me to work in a refugee camp. I'm support them in their plight and welcome them to this country. Is that clear enough for you?
You, by deliberate act, blur the line between refugee and immigrant. This is a relatively new tactic and I first came across it on the BBC. If you notice, they will refer to the same group of people as both refugees and immigrants within the same news article. They will alternate a number of times during the course of the report. This is no accident. It is a cynical and calculated act which is intended to allow anyone who criticises the hoards of rock throwing violent migrants to be vilified as unsympathetic to refugees. Pretty much in the same way as you are doing now. Like those with a hair-trigger who loosely vomited the term racist before you, the accusation doesn't work to silence anyone now. People have seen through it and it's OK to express and discuss concerns about uncontrolled immigration.
So let me be clear. My position is that we should help, support and shelter genuine refugees. We should not be accepting any migrants until each one has had their background thoroughly looked into AND they have something to offer the UK in terms of skills. The many immigrants who are here illegally should be deported.
What Merkel did by opening Germany's borders was at best foolish beyond comprehension and at worst an act of criminal negligence. The German people are no longer smiling at the behaviour of some of those arrivals.
Turning to the EU, uncontrolled migration is as much a threat to the stability of the U.K. as anything else. It impacts negatively on everything. My position is that we can't be part of a union with Merkel for the reasons stated above, Hollande who uses migrants as weapons against us, and soon to join Turkey, who use migrants to extort money and to bride their way into the eu. I believe the UK is better off out taking robust control of our borders and leading the way in writing our own new policies for immigration and asylum to replace the current overly abused and broken agreements of yesteryear. Let's re-establish ourselves as a compassionate nation for those in danger, not a soft touch for all-comers. The U.K. and it's people are good enough to do this and once we do, the people of Europe will defy their leaders and follow us. And that is what the Eurocrats are scared of.
Tillson, be a little more realist.
There are 24 millions Syrians, most if not all of them qualify for refugee status.
Where in the world would you like them to live and bring up their children?
In the same vein, there are 33 millions Iraquis and 34 millions Afghans.
We brought war to their countries, made their land unlivable and do nothing about it??
There are 24 millions Syrians, most if not all of them qualify for refugee status.
Where in the world would you like them to live and bring up their children?
In the same vein, there are 33 millions Iraquis and 34 millions Afghans.
We brought war to their countries, made their land unlivable and do nothing about it??
I'm not deliberately blurring the line between refugee and economic migrant, reality does. Clearly you haven't lived in conditions such as those in say Aleppo, it's definitely as much about economic as political deprivation. I'm also not using "deliberate tactics". Though this level of mistrust and suspicion doesn't surprise in someone with such xenophobic views. really, getting out of this suspicious position and discovering people and the world aren't that bad would do you the worlds good.
I note that the EU are now following Cameron's ideas of funding the refugees in camps nearer their homeland, so that they can live together in more humane conditions with education for the children, and so that they will be able to return to their country of origin as quickly and seamlessly as possible once Syria has once more become a country that they can live in.
This seems to me to be the best way forward.
This seems to me to be the best way forward.
I think the current negociation between Turkey and the EU shows clearly that Turkey is the best place to host the millions of Middle East refugees and the EU is the only organisation with the resources to pay for this.
But all being minorities greatly reduces that possibility, here there is no dominant community. Even the 46% of "white British" are not what they seem, a very high proportion like me have foreign surnames from their fathers with probably an equal number whose mothers were also foreign. We really are a very mixed bag, one of the reasons why we say London is a different country. The rest of the country could be the same if the bigotry disappeared.
And anyway, many of the jobs the immigrants take, from care work to crop picking and many others, the English simply refuse to do.
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That is the result of a broken benefits system, which is fixable, but that's another subject.
You do what Lanclass suggests, help them in or close to their home country. They can then be repatriated once the danger is over.
Shoehorning them into an alien culture and keeping your figures crossed that it won't all explode doesn't make sense. The long term ramifications are horrendous.
I agree and I think that there is a way forward here which will give a satisfactory interim solution to the problem. The refugees must be as anxious as we are to stay amongst like cultured people and they must all want to have a chance to return to their homes one day. I very much doubt that many refugees will return once they settle on Europe and that will create a long term problem that is best avoided. Cameron has been funding these refugees camps for some time now and whilst nobody would want to veiw it as a permanent solution, it at least keeps families together and prevents tensions in other countries.
@tillson.
would I live in tents for years with no right to grow my own food or build my house or seek gainful employment? No, I wouldn't.
If there is no hope for a better future, I'll take my family to the sea, better die together than spend another winter in a wet tent.
I hope many people watch the BBC program last night.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b073jh6b/frontline-doctors-winter-migrant-crisis
would I live in tents for years with no right to grow my own food or build my house or seek gainful employment? No, I wouldn't.
If there is no hope for a better future, I'll take my family to the sea, better die together than spend another winter in a wet tent.
I hope many people watch the BBC program last night.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b073jh6b/frontline-doctors-winter-migrant-crisis
My overriding impression from that programming, apart from the abject misery and suffering of these people was how ineffectual the EU has been in sorting the problem out. All the help and assistance across the route is being provided by volunteers and nothing by the politicians, except for Germany where they have made great efforts. This shows to me that the EU couldn,t organise the proverbial in a brewery
I have family in Germany and know how kind hearted German people can be.
No, today's young British people simply won't do these jobs which they regard as demeaning. This is entirely our own fault and it results from attempting to get half the population through university while driving them with propaganda threats like, "do you want to end up shelf stacking" etc.
So our young end up wanting impossibly high outcomes and brainwashed into thinking that many essential jobs are unacceptable. Rather than doing them they often go off backpacking overseas instead.
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You aren't related to the late Enoch Powell are you?
His "Rivers of blood" speech was almost half a century ago, so events have proved him obviously wrong.
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I think we may have found some common ground on which we agree here!
That's the problem with 28 countries trying to agree about something.... Or indeed, anything.