Kudos Cycles :: The new KUDOS HERO BIKE-designed to climb hills.

flecc · May 21, 2011

Excellent idea Dave, I'd expect a high demand for such an e-bike, improved hill climbing being one of the most common demands, and the lack of climb ability one of the most common complaints.

The spec looks as though it will have wide appeal and 26" wheels a good choice, better mechanical climb advantage than 700c.

PennyFarthing · May 21, 2011

I'd say black or black and white.

Now disregarding boy bike colours can I suggest, from a design colour point of view - that if you have any say so in colours of ladies step over bikes look at the dutch retro colours on non ebikes and go for very pale retro blue and very pale retro yellow.

On another forum there was a thread that had pages and pages of oohing and aaahing at a very expensive non ebike that was a pale retro yellow. Of course design-wise it was appealing to the eye too.

Just some thoughts -sorry it doesn't help your current decision.

trex · May 21, 2011

current e-bike standard 250W motor would limit what the bike can do. The physics formulae: W = F x d, W being 250W + rider's own physical effort, means that if the motor is geared to lower speed and higher torque, the rider won't go any faster uphill.

AndyOfTheSouth · May 21, 2011

An excellent idea. Congratulations on your initiative, as Flecc says, hill-climbing is one of the motives for buying a electric bike. Well done for your reasonably priced batteries, by the way. If you can establish a reputation for great customer support as well, you are on to a winning formula.

My vote is for steel blue!

Trex - just to save Flecc the bother of making the same point again... 250w is the average permitted output. The peak power output of a legal motor would be more than this. In the case of a powerful motor such as a Heinzmann, it would be much more.

trex · May 21, 2011

Andy, if you are climbing a hill, you will need a sustained output from the motor. As with car engine management, the peak output of the engine may be twice of its RMS but if you run the engine at that rate for eny length of time, it'll burn out. My solution for improving uphill performance is to wear a pacemaker or failing that, project Britney Spears hologram in front of the bike then pretend you won't be outdone by a chick.

flecc · May 21, 2011

trex said:
Andy, if you are climbing a hill, you will need a sustained output from the motor. As with car engine management, the peak output of the engine may be twice of its RMS but if you run the engine at that rate for eny length of time, it'll burn out.

I have to come in anyway Andy!

Trex, the 250 watts is a notional nonsense. As I and others have demonstrated, the motors in "legal" e-bikes sustain greatly in excess of 250 watts output without temperature rise. In my case on a Torq 1 the sustained output for almost all of the bike's battery content was 540 watts net with a temperature fall of 1 degree centigrade from pre-warmed up start to finish. That is an exceptional one, but circa 400 watts is commonplace.

Comparison of electric motors with ic engines is rarely relevant.

trex · May 21, 2011

Kudos uses Bafang 250W motor, if they overclock the controller, other manufacturers will complaint to trading standards. They wouldn't do it anyway because it's illegal. You can do anything you like with your bike, that's why I wanted to know how you can knock them dead. All e-bikes as I understand have a high startup current but a few seconds later, will drop down to normal, either to throttle level or through pedal pedal assist sensor or torque sensor. There are plenty of things manufacturers can do to improve e-bikes such as esthetics, ergonomics, batteries but I don't think they make illegal products. Please correct me if I am wrong.

trex · May 21, 2011

My point is, if you take two riders, one with Kudos Carbon King and another one with Kudos Sport (the one I wanted to buy and might still do), both will race from A to B. The one with stronger legs will win on any length, with or without hills. Manufacturers are hemmed in by stupid EN whatsit but that's what our previous goverments have signed up to.

banbury frank · May 21, 2011

Hi

I quote ( Uprated high current controller ) WHY more amps = more watts

If not why uprate the controller = More than 250 watts continues If not it wont climb hills

36 volt battery runs at 42 volt battery 20 amp controller 42X 20 = 840 watts to the motor less 20%

the loss through the motor at least 600 watts Continues 1,000 watts peak

NOW that will climb a HILL

Frank

eddieo · May 21, 2011

I don't mind what colour as long as its Black!

RoadieRoger · May 21, 2011

Don`t make it pink, as people might have doubts about you and in any case you will have trouble selling it on . Ask yourself, would you buy a pink car from anyone ?

flecc · May 21, 2011

trex said:
Kudos uses Bafang 250W motor, if they overclock the controller, other manufacturers will complaint to trading standards. They wouldn't do it anyway because it's illegal. You can do anything you like with your bike, that's why I wanted to know how you can knock them dead. All e-bikes as I understand have a high startup current but a few seconds later, will drop down to normal, either to throttle level or through pedal pedal assist sensor or torque sensor. There are plenty of things manufacturers can do to improve e-bikes such as esthetics, ergonomics, batteries but I don't think they make illegal products. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The real world facts contradict your assertions Trex.

Firstly, it can be shown that e-bikes could not do what they do on 250 watts continuous maximum power. For example, a legal eZee Quando model will climb a protracted 12% gradient at just over a steady 8 mph with me on board, total load fractionally over 100 kilos, and I would happily do that to battery empty on a suitable long alpine gradient. Simple calculation shows that requires a minimum of 439 watts, and that's without any allowance for rolling resistance and frictions.

Secondly, peak powers are far higher than you imagine. The Torq 1 I quoted before has been measured at just over 1000 watts gross peak power, not only by me but by member Tiberius (Nick), a scientist who sits on some of the international standards committees.

Thirdly, another manufacturer has recently posted that one of his motors was passed for EN15194 with 248 watts stable temperature maximum, measured at the motor shaft. That's not possible, the motor shaft is only accessible in the blind end of the hub shell. To measure in the claimed way, the motor core would have to be removed and a support yoke would have to be made for the motor core to be mounted in new bearings for that purpose. There are also further complications in measuring that I won't bore you with. Even in the very unlikely event of this being done, the test result would be completely invalid since it would not constitute a test of the standard product. And once again, that bike could not do what it does with 248 watts, less the losses due to it's internal epicyclic gear set.

I well remember the early days of e-bikes three decades ago when they did adhere to the legal power specified in the EAPC regulations of 1983. They were almost useless, which prevented their success, and it wasn't until the late 1990s when manufacturers adopted a more liberal interpretation that they became more popular.

It would be interesting to know what the EN testers are doing, but it certainly isn't achieving a measurement of continuous maximum power.

Your challenge is far from new, we've had a succession of new members doing the same in blindly accepting the 250 watts as gospel at the outset. They have learnt differently with time and experience of the subject.

Iffy · May 21, 2011

Kudoscycles said:
Thanks guys....thats sorted out the colour then....Black frame,Pink tyres and yellow mudguards...that will keep everyone happy,hehe....Kudos

I think that would look great Dave...............when can I get one? Seriously, I think that steel blue would look good.

Liang · May 21, 2011

I would really like to see some colour on bikes, it's all grey, white and black these days and really boring.
My current bike is bright orange

Not that I like orange that much, but it was the only one they had other than grey

banbury frank · May 21, 2011

Hi the simple answer is to put the bike on a dyno then it will reveal the BHP and speed at the wheel as if it where on a road
Frank

flecc · May 21, 2011

Agreed Frank, though the result would be the same as that calculated from on-road hill climb tests.

Kudos Cycles :: The new KUDOS HERO BIKE-designed to climb hills.

Official Trade Member

Member

Official Trade Member

Esteemed Pedelecer

Esteemed Pedelecer

Esteemed Pedelecer

Esteemed Pedelecer

Member

Esteemed Pedelecer

Official Trade Member

Esteemed Pedelecer

Banned

Banned

Esteemed Pedelecer

Member

Official Trade Member

Finding my (electric) wheels

Finding my (electric) wheels

Banned

Member

Advertisers