Kudos cycles – road shows, 2013

[shemozzle999]

Actual unless its supplied with a crew HMRC still considers that as pleasure usage and full duty should be paid.

British Marine Federation (BMF) guidance on Red Diesel

Hmmm, does a ship's dog constitute as crew I wonder?

 

[Old_Dave]

I doubt that a claim would work for a ships dog but a good case could be made for a ships cat or two

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship's_cat


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kudoscycles]

Some images of our 2012 Redbridge Ebike event.
To give some flavour of what you can expect at the Kudos Roadshow days for 2013.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Images continued due to the four image restriction:-

 

[Wisper Bikes]

David,Good to hear from you again-I understand that you have been busy relocating to Germany.
Thank you for your invite to join with your events,you and other e-bike sellers will be invited to our Redbridge Test track day,the cost is minimal and for the quality of the circuit,such good value-I will send out a formal letter of invitation shortly.
We won't be at the NEC this year,the timing is all wrong for me-that weekend is my wife's 60th birthday,going somewhere special and all my 2013 bikes will not be available by that date,we are going to have a small stand at the London Cycle Show,early January at the Excel.
Good luck with your move.
Dave
Kudoscycles

Thanks Dave, the relocation is going well, we had the first pre production prototypes at the NEC last week, excellent response.

The show was amazing.... I really do believe the tide may be turning, we were literally mobbed with not only existing dealers but a lot of IBDs ready to go electric at last. With numbers 30% up on last year to nearly 26,000 visitors it was well worth being there. It was also very interesting talking to end users, their level of knowledge regarding ebikes suggests there is a lot more interest than ever before, we really may be reaching that elusive "tipping point" Hope you can make it next year, I am not certain of the numbers but there must have been at least twenty pedelec brands at the show all available to test albeit on rather a short outside course.

Regarding the Kudos events, will they be billed as such or are you going more generic in the way the events are presented?

All the best

David

 

[eddieo]

saw some real beauty's in Croatia (boats). We were out cycling in Rab town on Rab island, and a massive dark grey boat was coming into port...the captain was standing on the roof using a remote control to dock it!. while the supposed oligarch and lady friends were being served drinks at back, will try and find a picture....

here it is..far more impressive up close as dont look so big in this pic.. impressive remote control toy or what?

found this re boat with shots of interior, no price though, but certainly right in this case that if you need to ask you cant afford it!......wonder if they would take my camper in a PX

Motor Yacht NOOR - Bilgin Yachts

 

[Kudoscycles]

David,good to hear that the NEC cycle show was well attended.
With regards to the labelling of other events,I am happy to badge the Redbridge Cycling event as the London Electric Bike Test Day. I do believe that this event could grow into something quite big,if we all throw our combined energies behind it. What I like is the cost of the venue is so low that even the smallest of the e-bike suppliers could afford to attend.
Also,if one were to design a test track for e-bikes it would be hard to conceive anything better than the Redbridge circuit. Cycle shows are all very nice to meet people but a bicycle needs to be tested in its usage environment and without pressure from other riders.
Invitation letters went out today,the venue can comfortably hold 20 off 3m x 3m gazebos and the circuit perhaps 100 plus riders.
The other Kudos events are small and personal to support our local dealer,the situations do not suit generic attendance,though I would happily exhibit at an event similar to the Redbridge show if you can find a suitable venue in the north of england,so far I have not found a similar track.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I think Dave a lot more brands would be likely to attend if it were so named, we would need to make sure however it wasn't confused with the Regent's Park event. I will need to check to see what we called it last year.

Please send me further information.

All the best

David

 

[RobF]

To encourage wider attendance by importers/manufacturers at the shows, you could charge the smaller names less than the bigger ones, but still offer roughly equal pitch sizes.

The larger names may not want to pay more, but in terms of building the event and reaching the 'tipping point', this could be a case where the most obvious standpoint - wanting to pay as little as possible - is not the best one.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I agree wholeheartedly Rob as long as we were seen as one of the little ones.

Being one of names that has been known longest in the UK industry means we have more time to lose all our money than most!!

All the best

David

 

[RobF]

I agree wholeheartedly Rob as long as we were seen as one of the little ones.

Being one of names that has been known longest in the UK industry means we have more time to lose all our money than most!!

All the best

David

When Wisper's bigger than Raleigh, all of us on here will be able to say: "I knew that Dave when he had nowt."

 

[Kudoscycles]

To encourage wider attendance by importers/manufacturers at the shows, you could charge the smaller names less than the bigger ones, but still offer roughly equal pitch sizes.

The larger names may not want to pay more, but in terms of building the event and reaching the 'tipping point', this could be a case where the most obvious standpoint - wanting to pay as little as possible - is not the best one.

Rob,we are only charging £50.00 for exhibitors at the Redbridge event,just to cover admin costs. The Tour de Presteigne was £300.00 and its difficult to do the NEC or London Excel shows under £2000.00. We don't want to profit from the event,the prime aim is to attract as many exhibitors and e-bike enthusiasts and grow the e-bike concept. There is no entrance fee for testers.
The cycling centre has a nice cafe and a covered patio style area for friends and family to view the action.
I hope it will become an annual event in the spring,should be an ideal time to view the latest and up to date bikes just before the summer.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[RobF]

Dave,

Looks like your 'not for profit' model is the way forward for e-bike shows for the time being.

I read somewhere that one or two of the bigger names in ordinary bikes didn't bother with the NEC, so something's not quite right there.

Didn't you post something about the organisers?

The events management company at the NEC is probably used to dealing with big businessmen, bicycle people don't wear blue suits or fit the corporate mould, so I suspect a cash of cultures.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Dave,

Looks like your 'not for profit' model is the way forward for e-bike shows for the time being.

I read somewhere that one or two of the bigger names in ordinary bikes didn't bother with the NEC, so something's not quite right there.

Didn't you post something about the organisers?

The events management company at the NEC is probably used to dealing with big businessmen, bicycle people don't wear blue suits or fit the corporate mould, so I suspect a cash of cultures.

Rob,I have done lots of events at the NEC,in fact I am there at Autosports race car show,Jan 10-13,2013,big 50square metre stand. I know the venue well,it is probably the most expensive exhibition centre in Europe. Families used to come to Autosports but with parking,entrance costs and food,they don't see much change out of £200 for a family day out,I rarely see kids these days.
The NEC Cycle Show is equally expensive but hard to justify in the low volume e-bike market,if I was Bianchi or Pinarello I would feel compelled to be there.
Kudos had a big display in 2011,it was our launch year,but we asked for some changes from the organisers,in particular that the test track entered the building and testers could then start/finish back at each stand. The stands organised corall style,the front of the stand facing the aisle,the back facing the test track,this means my employees can help with both tasks-the organisers promised this but failed to deliver.
Also many of the testers treated the test like a fairground ride with no intention of buying an e-bike.
This year I had personal reasons not to attend,an important birthday. I will probably return next year with a smallish stand,just to have a presence. But its more fun doing these local shows,the testers are seriously interested in the product and the 'less is more' syndrome applies,we can spend more time with our customers.
The high cost of the NEC is not the fault of the show organisers,it is just so expensive hiring the halls at that venue.
Maybe one of the smaller events will grow strong enough to be considered as the National Electric Bike Show,then the NEC will be seen as an expense we can avoid. One of the problems of the NEC is that I don't think there is a natural hill,I remember sliding on the ice down the pedestrian tracks to the car parks,but not a rideable hill.
When I first looked at locations I tried to find a venue that had a covered hall but having done a few of these road shows I don't think the weather is a problem,after all at some time you will have to ride in the rain and with good clothing protection its not a problem.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[Wisper Bikes]

The NEC Cycle show is expensive, but in my opinion and that of many other e-bike exhibitors at the show very much worth while. Particularly if we want to persuade the cycle industry to accept electric bikes as an important part of the market. It is also an opportunity to meet end users who were not considering electric bikes and show them what they are missing. On the Wisper stand we had masses of interest particularly in the Grace MX from hardened mountain bikers who understood the extra dimension an electric motor would add to their sport, these guys would not normally have looked twice at a pedelec and the nigh on £3k price tag did not seem to be an issue especially considering the high quality of the machine. I am not suggesting that we are going to change independent bicycle retailers perception of electric bikes overnight but unless we as an industry engage with them we will never bring e-biking into the main stream. Interestingly in Germany and Holland where electric bike sales account for about 1 in 5 of all bicycles sold there do not seem to be any electric bike specific shows. These guys see e-biking as a natural extension to cycling, maybe that is where we are going wrong?! Electric bike specific days are fine and Wisper are certainly interested in being involved, but it is important to understand that at such events we are simply preaching to the converted and not expanding the demand for our bikes.

We will certainly be investing in the Cycle Show next year as will most mainstream electric bike manufacturers and distributors. I agree the test track is limited however it is certainly long enough to differentiate between the good and the not so good and of course has the added advantage of keeping the test rides short so we can demonstrate the joys of electric biking to as many would be electric bike converts as possible.

All the best

David

 

[eddieo]

Makes absolute sense to me David. I have no interest in just going to look at a range of generic Chinese bikes. At a large show at least I can hopefully get a chance to see a range of the types of E bikes that interest me. Also have half a chance of convincing cyclists that e biking does not mean heavy ugly machines.....Only then will you see the change. It has happened in Europe already

Is Regents park on again this year? Please try and do something about the track

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Eddie, what not on holiday??

I agree, the Chinese generic bikes do not feature as much in either Germany or Holland as they do here and yes maybe that is why the market has not taken off yet. In Holland and especially Germany bike styles are country and even region specific. There are some Taiwanese bikes on the market but bikes such as the Saxonette (made in China) are having a hard time due to quality and delivery issues. Tellingly the average price for an electric bike in Europe is much higher than in the UK, the Europeans demand bikes that not only ride well but will be able to cope with high levels of use over many years. The trend seems to be moving away from Chinese manufacture now. Again tellingly I had two household name retailers sit down on our stand and tell me that they were no longer interested in cheap generic Chinese bikes as they cause too many problems, maybe not immediately but a few months down the line. And that they were now looking for European manufactured bikes.

Yes we will certainly be at the Green Show in The Regent's Park again in 2103 I would not want to disappoint the hundreds that said they would come back to see the event next year, and I will try and get a better track layout sorted out although I cannot promise anything, getting roads closed in the middle of London is tricky! It was nice to have the two long straights but we need a hill and maybe some more corners.

The Redhill day looks good, as long as we can get a lot more brands to show there, but I think it will be more for the enthusiast than an event to engage with the public and bicycle trade.

All the best

David

 

[Kudoscycles]

David,very good points and I agree with most of your your comments. The e-bike customer in the UK at the moment is not a natural extension of bike riders,in fact most sport riders have an adverse reaction to electric bikes. In Holland and especially Germany there is not this divide,sports bikes and e-bikes happily co-exist,where did the anti e-bike reaction come from in the UK?
I am not against the cycle shows,I am exhibiting at London-Excel to release my 2013 models and will be back at the NEC next year but the success of the Redbridge Cycling day convinced me to experiment with 'taking the bikes to the people'-lets be honest if you are north of Birmingham you are virtually ignored by the e-bike industry. I hope that BEBA or E4 dream up some ideas that are inexpensive to further promote the e-bike concept.
I am against those centre of London events because I still remember the green rally on the Mall,2011,opposite Admiralty Arch-the show was very well attended-my staff must have given 1000 plus test rides and the track was half the length of the Mall, I did a good job of selling the e-bike concept to USA,Australia,Bolivia etc....I did sell 1 bike to a nice guy from Edinburgh. Spencer Ivy were with me,I don't think we would do it again.
At present in the UK I think that e-bikes attached to retirement shows would be a good idea but these shows are very expensive relative to the attendance numbers and as you say it is going off on a tangent,we should be convincing current bike riders that e-bikes are acceptable.
Please understand I am very supportive of any event that expands the e-bike concept-the NEC could be so much better if only a hill could be incorporated into the test track and the track finishes adjacent to each stand-you know Eurobike well,just copy what they do there. But the organisers of the NEC look towards the big sports bike manufacturers for their revenue,fair enough,they have to make money and e-bikes are small beer to them in the UK.
It would help if the big manufacturers like the Accell group,Scott,Specialised,Haibike,KTM,Merida took the e-bike market in the UK more seriously,that would give some real muscle to the marketing but the reaction I got from them at Eurobike was pretty negative-were any of the big guys at the NEC pushing e-bikes?
It must be obvious to you that Kudos has the financial muscle to market it's products in whatever manner is appropriate to the volume potential,I suppose we are 'keeping our powder dry' to see if the e-bike market expands in line with the current boom in sports bike riding.
If your 'tipping point' is revealed we will certainly respond to it. In the meantime doing small road shows supporting individual dealers is an inexpensive and fun way of keeping in touch with our current and potential customers.
Good luck in 2013
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[Kudoscycles]

Makes absolute sense to me David. I have no interest in just going to look at a range of generic Chinese bikes. At a large show at least I can hopefully get a chance to see a range of the types of E bikes that interest me. Also have half a chance of convincing cyclists that e biking does not mean heavy ugly machines.....Only then will you see the change. It has happened in Europe already

Is Regents park on again this year? Please try and do something about the track

Eddie,you are entitled to your opinions and you certainly express them with passion and feeling. The problem is that,in most cases, the UK is not ready to accept paying much in excess of £1k for an e-bike,I suspect that in volume terms the cheap £599.00 Cyclamatic is still the best selling bike in the UK. To save weight and add technology adds cost,although with care of parts selection it is possible to sell a lightweight bike at a reasonable price-our 'Secret' folder is a good example.
Bosch are somewhat holding the market place to ransom,they have almost no competition,even that new AEG system will be similar costing to the Bosch,they don't want to disturb the established price point.
But a chinese bike will evolve that offers the german quality,the specification is already there,its just screwing it all together properly.
Out of interest which bike at the NEC show caught your eye?
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks David for you response.

I don't think we need to expand further, there are obvious benefits for days such as the Redbridge event and the larger NEC style shows, their aims are simply different. It will be good to see you there next year.

As a matter of interest the course at the NEC did have a short ramp at about 15% only forty meters or so long but it shows the organisers of the show certainly have the inclination to improve the facilities. E4 and BEBA will be consultants again for the 2013 show and hopefully we can persuade the organisers to do even more next year. We could do with someone like you to help with all the hard work!

All the best

David